A dinner lady took me to the seaside | Naz Shah

Naz Shah  00:00

It really, really overwhelms me even today. Yeah, no, like, what 45 or 40 something years later?

Holly Newson  00:09

Oh, hey, welcome to kind I'm so glad you're here. I'm Holly, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times people were kind to them and how that changed things. In this episode, you'll hear how a trip to the seaside and a treasured photograph have lasted in memory for over 40 years. By the way, you've got this right. Let's drop you straight in. You're about to hear from Naz Shah, who has campaigned repeatedly for social equality and disability rights. She's labor MP for Bradford West and now an author of her memoir, Honoured. Naz, welcome!

Naz Shah  00:48

Thank you, Holly.

Holly Newson  00:49

So my first question is, what do you think it means to be kind? What does that mean to you?

Naz Shah  00:55

I think there's a difference between being kind and nice. People can be nice, but to do kindness is it's doing something for somebody. I think that's the difference kindnesses. It's something it lifts your soul. It lifts your spirit, because everyone is nice to you, because maybe they have to be nice to you, or be polite to you. But actually, to be kind is to have is to have an impact on somebody, which leaves a memory, because you never forget when somebody's kind to you.

Holly Newson  01:25

Are there small acts of kindness that like day to day, things that personally mean a lot to you, like a message to check in, or a good morning, or whatever it might be.

Naz Shah  01:35

Yeah, I've got my girlfriends who do that. So we've got, I've got different, got different WhatsApp groups of girlfriends. So girlfriends in London, girlfriends in Bradford. And we always, you know, we we start the day. And sometimes it's just funny little things, just to say, Have a nice day, or this is what happened to me, and sharing something good. And sometimes it's just an Instagram link. This is for you, my girls.

Holly Newson  01:59

What sort of things are you sharing from Instagram?

Naz Shah  02:02

Usually all about female empowerment. Yeah, I share them with my kids as well. So we've got a group which is just called just us, and my kids will be like and you can see the face of them, or here she goes again. So you send them. I usually send them things of reminders, of sometimes it's lessons like, this is how much scrolling. If you do this is the impact it has. Some of them are mumsy stuff, but other times it's just things like, you know what a son means to me, what a daughter means to me? And my daughter was the first born. So you get all these things about first born children, and then I find the middle child, one, and then I find the younger child one, just to keep it balanced. But yeah, it's those little things that kind of make you smile. But women empowerment is a big one. And then I find dancing. The ones that are best ones are the dancing ones that you send to your bestie and say, This is me, and you two old women dancing, this is going to be me and you in our 80s and 90s.

Holly Newson  03:01

I've got a friend who's moved to Australia, and when I see those that I immediately now think of her, because I'm like, at some point we were going to be back together, and we're going to be old ladies and we're going to be dancing, yes? So every time someone comes on the show, I ask them to have a think about three times people have done something kind for them. So to start off with, I wonder if you would introduce me to Mrs. Brassley.

Naz Shah  03:22

So Mrs. Brassley was, I was at primary school. We weren't rich, we were very poor. We lived in poverty, and we did not do holidays. And Mrs. Brassley was a dinner lady, and she took me. She lived in Clayton, which is now as part of my constituency. I remember going to a house. It was the first time I knew I'd experienced gooseberries because they used to, they had a kind of, I think it was like a little garden area where they grew fruit. And I'd never seen a gooseberry before, and they introduced me to it. It was like a green and I was like, What is this? Is like a grape or whatever. And remember, she had a daughter. He was a daughter. I was really young. I was in primary school.

Holly Newson  04:06

So what was the relationship with Mrs. Brassley like at school? When, when you'd see her and you'd be having your lunch?

Naz Shah  04:12

oh, she'd be so she used to be walking the school playground in Hollywood, Hollywood Lane primary school, which just outside of my constituency. I drove past it two days ago, and she'd be walking around and and I was, you know, school I did well. When I was at school, in primary school, I was always like the teacher's pet, you know, so I had teachers were really very nice to me. I'd always behaved. I never caused problems. I was that goody two shoes and, and she was just kind to me, and she took me to Scarborough, and was the first time that I saw a full size, you know? I mean, it was a pink pamper, I think it was, or it was one of those characters, and we had a picture taken next to it along the along the beach front, yeah. And we've lost that picture because I've moved. So many times, but I will never forget that picture, this little Asian kid when I look back at it now, and this family, this lovely family, Mrs. Grassley and her family having that, you know, having a picture and giving it to me as a memory for my first trip to the seaside. Yeah, that was, that was. And funnily enough, when I first came into parliament, the first couple of weeks, I got an email from Mrs. Brasley saying, Are you the little girl from Hollywood primary? Now, what happened was, and if Mrs. Brasley, or anybody who knows Mrs. Brasley, she used to live in Clayton, she moved to, I think they moved to Hereford or Hertfordshire, and they sent me an email, and we had an issue, because it was a new email, and it I couldn't, I couldn't access it, so I put it into a folder to come back to, and I lost those emails. So I've never been able to contact Mrs. Russley, oh no, even though she emailed me and she emailed me over 10 years ago, nearly 11 years ago, and that kind of, like, it still pains me. There's still times that I think I wish I could go back and find that email, yeah, you know, and reconnect with her and just say to her how much of an impact she had on my life and to take me away for a day and how that helped my mum at the time. It really, really overwhelms me even today. Yeah, no, like, what, 45 or 40 something years later. So she was an amazing, amazing person,

Holly Newson  06:28

and when she first took you to Scarborough that you said that was her first time at the seaside, yes. So what was your reaction?

Naz Shah  06:34

Well, it was something because we didn't do holidays, you know, the only thing we traveled to was probably Luton to see the relatives and back. And that was in one of my mum's uncle's cars, and he used to drive us there, bless him, Nana shabal, he used to drive us there. And we used to have fun in those journeys. But it was, it wasn't a done thing. It just wasn't. But yet, when she took me to to Scarborough, it was, it was excitement. You know, it's like a new thing. And it somebody asked me a question recently, you know, when you were moving all those times, did you have a toy that you took with you, or did you have something that went with you? And I never did, but to me, it was like, Oh, my God, I had this photograph. I had this photograph of me with Mrs. Brasley, Mr. Brassley and their child. But, yeah, having that picture was, it was my it was something that I used to cherish. That picture was, and then we moved that many times with my mum, we lost all the photographs. So it's one of those photographs that I would have, you know, I would have loved to have kept and shown my kids. Yeah, I haven't seen that picture for years now. Yeah, God, I think 35 years it's probably been because my mom went to prison for 14 years, and she's been home for 20 years, you know, since about 3435 years since I've seen that picture. Yeah. But the thing I do remember, it was sunny. There was a little hut on the side where this character came out, and they took the picture, and they gave you the photograph. You know, it was a proper photograph. It wasn't, it wasn't instantaneous, like we do today.

Holly Newson  08:08

And why do you think that Mrs. Brasley went the effort to invite you? What? What do you think made her extend that kindness?

Naz Shah  08:18

I think she extended that kindness because somehow she whether I told her, whether she figured out that we lived in poverty, that I'd never been on holiday, or whether I'd never, you know, I'd never done any of that. And then, you know, because it's like me now, when I take my kids on holiday, if I was a teacher and I knew other kids, it affects you. It impacts you. Because as human, human nature is to be, you know, show humanity to other people, right? We're not. It's like that old saying, you know, we're not. We're born to love. We're not born to hate, right? We are our innate and first primary instinct is to be kind and to love. And I think, and that was what Mrs. Roughly, was Mrs. Bradley, was that human being with kindness? And she must have heard, or I don't know how she figured I'd love to ask her, you know, who? How did you know? But I needed that experience, you know, and gave me that experience, yeah, so, yeah. But she was just a kind, kind, kind person, yeah. Yeah.

Holly Newson  09:23

So the quick question is, can you think of a time that someone did something kind for you?

Mo  09:29

Recently, it was my flatmate that he, like, referred me to a job that he could have taken. He could have taken it, but instead he give the opportunity to me because I was, at the time, I was looking for a job desperately.

Holly Newson  09:48

What did it mean to you that he'd Yeah, that he'd thought of you and been like, you should take this Yeah?

Mo  09:54

oI was like, I was really, like, surprised, yeah, I got, like, a lot of experiences from. That job, because it was my first job, like, here in London. So that means a lot to me, because, like, for me, it's I was looking for at the time, I was looking for a job for like, three months, and they couldn't find it. And I felt like, really appreciated to him. Like, my mind, I always, always thought like I have to give him like I have to give him something or I have to make something special.

Holly Newson  10:29

Can I ask what your name is?

Mo  10:30

Mo,

Holly Newson  10:31

Mo, thank you so much.

Holly Newson  10:42

So we going to talk about the your second story of kindness now. So will you start by telling me where you were when this happened?

Naz Shah  10:51

Okay, it was in 2019 so not so long ago, memory is much more vivid in terms of I was in hospital, so I had in 2019 I'd had one day I was really, really unwell. I remember it was women inequalities, because I was the shadow minister women inequalities, and I had pneumonia, and I ended up in hospital just before Christmas, on the 20th of December. And I remember it because I had to ask my kid's dad, Lee to come from Bradford to look after the kids, because I was hospitalized, and it was his birthday, that's why I remember the day and and then I stayed in hospital for a few days here in London, and then, because it was a Christmas holiday, my family took me back up to Bradford. 10 days later, I had a blinding headache, so and I wasn't sure what it was. It was. It turned out it was meningitis. So I kind of, like had a burnout in 2019 and I went to, I was admitted into hospital, and because it was meningitis, you know, I had the lumbar puncture and everything else. And my bishop, Toby Bishop, he's lovely, lovely man, and I've got, you know, I get, I always ask him to pray for me, and he came to see me at the hospital, and he bought me a set of palms, and he asked me whether I'd be offended because they were because I'm a Sunni Muslim, and they were Shia writings. And I said, No, not at all, because God's word is God's word. And you know, prayers are prayers, right? And I said, and he was just so kind. He bought them for me, and he sat there and read one of them to me, and he prayed for me. He sat in my hospital room and just prayed for me. And he's been back since. So when I had my spinal surgery in September, he came over to the house because I was recovering at home, and we sat out in the garden, and my mum made samosas and which chutney whilst we just sat in the garden, which was lovely. But he often does that, and it just, it's just so nice to have that kindness, and it means, you know, and he sits with me and holds my hand and prays for me, and that's just so beautiful. It really is. It's that kind of thing that keeps you going. You know, it's that kind of thing, especially in the world that we live in, and the world I occupy, of politics, where everything is just gloom and gloom and gloom, when you get the good stuff, when you find out the good stuff, when you have that kind of spirituality around you and kindness, you know, it's just beautiful.

Holly Newson  13:22

What's that feeling within yourself when he's sitting with you and praying?

Naz Shah  13:28

It's a feeling of contentment. It's a feeling of that life is life is beyond us. It's that feeling of that. It's that kind of, the only way I can describe it after reading a recent book, which is an Islamic book, about giving when you're giving beyond yourself, when you're it's like self actualization, if you like, when you understand your purpose is beyond you, and you're here for a bigger purpose, which is the world, and what you can do for the world. And that prayer when you're when you're receiving those prayers, and that positivity and the energy and that spirituality, it strengthens that. And it's like, because somebody else is reciprocating, because they don't have to do that, right? There's no obligation for them to come and see me, for Bishop Toby, to come and see me in my house, and bring me, you know, even a box of chocolates, or bring me some prayers, and just pray for me and sit with me and listen to me. You know that is beyond being nice. It's been kind, and it's been kind because you're doing it from a depth which is beyond your own beyond your own needs. It's for the needs of humanity, and it's for the needs. And I think there's something really, really profound in that. So it's so many different there are so many different ways of understanding that impact and what it means to you. Because when you're ill, when you're ill and you're recovering, and you can't do anything, trust me, you have plenty of time to reflect, because you can't really sit in. There and watch TV because my neck was stiff and I can't read because I can't sit up for long and hold my my neck up, so I was resting a lot. And when you're resting, you get you and when you're off and you're not working because you really aren't able to work, you get a lot of reflection time. And when, whenever Bishop Toby's come over Toby comes over. It's always kind of like that. It's like, it's that moment that it turns up when I when I've got time to reflect which is, which is interesting in itself. So, yeah, it's lovely, yeah.

Holly Newson  15:32

And then when you had meningitis, that must have been quite scary. Like, I mean, aside from everything, lumbar puncture has always sounded incredibly painful. So what was that experience like? To be like, I was just, I just had pneumonia, and now, like, what is,

Naz Shah  15:48

yeah, I think that was like, God, kicking my backside saying, You need to slow down. Or my body kicking my backside saying, Look, you're not. You're not, because I was, I was because the first three years of politics. I'd been in 2015 to 1718, up until 19. My kids were in Bradford, and I was up and down the country, but I was new, and the expectations, because I was a new MP it was very, very I wasn't, you know, when I was in Bradford, I was never home. I didn't see my kids as much, and I realized that I was missing my kids growing up, so I bought them to school, them in London with me, and I'd bought them in September. And because I was adamant that I wanted to get my kids into routine, I didn't accept help which was, which was my which was my mistake. And I know Hindsight is a wonderful thing. My mum said, Look, let me help you out. And I said, No, I need my kids to get into a routine, to understand that they don't have that support structure around them in London. So I was going into work on a Monday evening because we were voting till 10 o'clock. I had this routine setup where I'd be Monday morning, would be going out and shopping before I went into parliament. Then Monday evening, I'd come home, I'd cook, I'd you get a text message, and I was only 15 minute walk away from Parliament, so you'd get a text message if a debate was winding up, and you'd have to go back into the votes, etc. So I'd come home, I'd cook. My children were really young, right? My youngest was only seven, and my elder two had just started a new school, so I was really adamant to be the best, and I was burning it at both ends, you know, burning the candle and cooking, cleaning, doing all of that whilst going up and down to work up and down, you know, I remember being in it on a work zoom calling with my air pods in whilst I was making trapaties, because I'm really terrible for making sure that my kids eat Healthy and they eat home cooked food. So Mondays was usually past a day, because they can heat it up. So I didn't have to worry about them. And if it wasn't, it was chapatis, which are freshly made. It was just those things that I just burnt out by by December, September, October, November, December. By December, I'd burnt out. And then it was like, you know, you need to accept help and stop trying to be the hero. It was one of those moments, I think. And in terms of being frightening, it wasn't so frightening because I knew that I'd not been taking care of myself. I did change my lifestyle a bit, you know, I did start drinking, eating healthy a bit more and being a bit more kinder to myself. Because we're not always kind to ourselves. We don't always look after look after ourselves because we're so you know, it's all in third lane all the time, and that's the demands of a job and demands of being a single parent for young children, I suppose. Yeah, you know. So I'm not alone in that department,

Holly Newson  18:35

yeah, for sure. And in terms of the sitting with you in prayer. Is that something or something similar, you've been able to pass on to other people, to be able to kind of hold that space for them, for their own reflection? Yeah.

Naz Shah  18:49

So we do that quite often in our family, so every time, so at least once a week, twice a week. My brother, particularly, he does a lot of reflection and prayer. He's very spiritual. So whenever we're sitting together, whenever we're having a meal together, was really funny, because we did a Sunday where we're going to have some family time. So we had brunch, and then we had these old videos playing, and we actually, my sister said, Oh, my brother's on holiday with his wife, who's going to do the prayers. Do you know? I mean, so we pray and we reflect, and we reflect on gratitude, we reflect on the food, we reflect on conflict, we reflect and it's a really my brother, bless him. He sometimes thinks I'm, you know, I want him to speed it up, but actually he does really nice prayers and reflects on the food that we're eating will be the work that we're doing the state of the world. You know that thank you. We thank the Lord. We thank for everything, for even being able to have the heat and the fire on the little, little things he mentions. And he mentions that it's really, really important for the kids as well to be able to realize that don't take these things for granted. You.

Emily  20:03

Hey, Holly, it's Emily here. The kindest thing that's happened to me, probably ever was when my husband and I went to an interview and also in Dublin for our book club. And we met these two random strangers a couple months before in heaven nightclub. And we really hit it off with them. And we kind of told them, oh, we might be coming to do an event in Dublin. Like, let's stay in touch. So I told him we were coming, and he said, Well, why didn't you just come and stay with us? Like, it's really expensive in Dublin. And he picked us up from the airport. He gave up his bedroom so that we could have his bed and ensuite, and him and him and his housemate were just the loveliest, kindest people. He gave us travel cards and money on so we didn't have to worry about getting busses. He took us out on a night out with all of his friends, like genuinely, really restored my faith in just the absolute kindness of strangers, and we're still friends with them to this day.

Holly Newson  21:12

Moving on to your third act of kindness, tell me. Tell me what happened. Tell me the situation.

Naz Shah  21:19

Okay, so I was in my office. I've got an amazing team. I'd be nothing without my team, my staff team. So we had some interns, and one is Amani, and Amani has now moved on to bigger and better things, which I'd expect for young interns to do. But she came one evening, I was sat in my office, and she said, Oh, my Auntie's here, and she's got something for you. And I was taken aback, and it's okay, thank you. And I'd said to said hello to them. And she bought me a little bag, and she bought me, and it was really interesting. She bought me an eyeliner, right? Because I wear eyeliner, right? Called eyeliner. She said, I want you to try this, because I know you wear eyeliner. And it was just something really, really small, but really sweet. And she, she bought me a mug with Naz Shah MP written on it. So that's my mug, and it had red in it, so it was Labor colors as well, right? So it was just that, you know, having that little gift. Because they didn't know whether they were going to see me or not. They came to see Imani. They, you know, popped in in the evening after work. So Imani was going to show them round, but and have go for dinner or something. But it was just so lovely that her auntie, who'd come from, I think she lives in Slough, that she'd gone through that effort of knowing she was going to come, she was going to in. She might not have seen me, but she bought me this eyeliner and a mug, right with my name on it. And it's like it was just so nice. I mean, people get you presents, right? You know, some people are better at it. I'm not good at that, right? You know, really putting forth into something, yeah, but that was really kind I thought that was, you know, that was, that was effort went into that, yeah, thought that went into that. And it was, she didn't have to, you know, she didn't know me. She, you know, she, she told me how she was inspired by me, etc, but still, I just thought that was so sweet. Yeah, really sweet. What?

Holly Newson  23:07

What was it about that moment that you think has stuck with you enough to kind of to well, to be able to share it here?

Naz Shah  23:14

I think what struck me was you realize it's again. It's that gratitude, because when I when I do my job, I do it from a place of faith. I do it from a place of spirituality. I do it from a place of I've got to be the best that I can be. And God has gifted me with this gift. He's gifted me with a position. He's honored me. My constituents have honored me. How do I do that to the best of my ability? That woman coming in, Amani is giving me that thinking of me whilst not knowing me, and telling me that I inspired her. It's like a sort of validation that you're doing something right. That's why it hits you, because you think somebody you don't know, and you've inspired them so much that they've gone out of their way to make you a personalized mug. It's a beautiful it's, it just, it warms you. It warms you inside. It's like, I think in London especially, it's very different to the north. The north are much more chirpy, chirpy, chappy, chippy people, you know? I mean, it's like, you know, you get your mornings, you get your kind of spring in your step and what have you, yeah. And the London is much more different, because London is like, you're on treadmill, you're on a you're on it, you're on that mouse wheel of, kind of like going, you know, just working and working and working, yeah. So you get that so, so, yeah, I think I'm on his anti just doing that for me in my office, you know, knocking on the door coming in, and I was at my computer and says, I've got something to help you. Don't mind? And it was like, yeah, it was just really, really nice.

Holly Newson  24:46

And with the eyeliner, she's really seen you, she's really noticed you, like did so it's so specific to be like, I think yeah, you will enjoy this thing. And also, like, a bit of a risk. Yeah, like, you've got it, she's really put herself out there in case, in case you're like, oh, actually, I have loads of allergies, you know, whatever it might be, you know, yeah,

Naz Shah  25:09

I wear the eyeliner, and it's a damn good eyeliner.

Holly Newson  25:15

That's brilliant.

Naz Shah  25:16

Yeah, it's, yeah, I think I might bring it out so that I need to get some more. I would have to text Imani and said, Can you tell your auntie where she got that? So, yeah, people are beautiful. People are kind Yeah, naturally, definitely.

Holly Newson  25:30

So I want to talk about your book a little bit. So there's one thing that you write. You write every action has a consequence, yeah? And that was, it's just, you know, one part of one chapter of the book, but it really stuck out to me how how that belief sits in you, and I wondered how it affects how you live your life today.

Naz Shah  25:53

Interesting question. Yes, it massively everything that I do has a consequence. So if we're sticking with the concept of kindness. You compliment somebody's skirt, you compliment somebody's jacket, you compliment somebody's hair, right? That can give it's amazing, just that little action can have a consequence for that person, because it just makes them feel good, or whatever. And I'll, you know, and sometimes you one of the things that I think people don't do often enough, right is, and I think we need to do more of it. We forget to tell people when we're happy and when we're you know when they've done something good. We forget to compliment them because we get too busy. So there was one of our ministers, bless him. His name escapes me, but he's on. He does AI, and he's really, really, he's a really, really bright guy. The next time I saw him, I actually went up to him, and I just wanted to say, thank you for doing what you're doing. And it was only little, but I remember his smile, and he'll it's like, and when somebody does that to you, because people have done that to me, saying, Naz, by the way, we saw this, we heard your interview was really good, or we heard this, and we and it doesn't half feel you. It fills you with joy, because you're thinking, Okay, I'm doing something, and somebody's noticed. Because what do we do as human beings? We want to be noticed. We want to matter. We want to belong. And when you notice people, those have those actions have consequences. The other thing is, when you're giving and when you're doing something, you don't do it because you expect anything in return, right? You're doing it to give, and if you're a natural giver, then God gives you back. It comes back tenfold. You know, how does a girl like me be sat here in a place with you having this conversation about a book when, less than 35 years ago, I was in a village in Pakistan, literally picking up buffalo crap and turning it into, you know, turning it into view. How does a girl like me get into, you know, be sat in a studio in central London, be, you know, when, when I left school at 12? You know, how does this even happen if it isn't God's will, or if it isn't beauty that comes back to you because you give that's your nature. Yeah.

Holly Newson  28:08

And so, to finish it off, what is the kindest thing you have ever done for yourself?

Naz Shah  28:13

For myself? Oh, oh, God, I've not thought about that. What is the kindest thing I've ever done to myself? I think since my 2019 burnout, I've been much kinder to myself, totally in terms of looking after myself a bit better. I think the kindest thing I've done to myself is actually stopped and realized that I need help. You know, I need help in terms of my health, in terms of my mental health, and allowing me, I think the kindest thing I've done for myself is allowing me to be me. That's the kindest thing, because what we do as women, and when you've had trauma in your life, when you've had tragedy in your life, what we do as women and women carry pain, women carry that internally, and what we don't do is be kind enough to ourselves to accept that and to accept that it's okay just that act of being just to say to ourselves that, you know what that pain that we carry, we don't have to beat ourselves of why we do it so when we're upset and when we're angry, what we often do, and women do it so much more, and the women that I've met, why can't I just get over this? Why can't just get normal? Why can't I just get on with everyone in my life? Why can't I just do this? Why can't I just say, and actually, by being kind to yourself, you're saying it's okay to hold those emotions. It's okay to have two truths. And one truth is that this hurts. One Truth is that this was hard. One Truth is that this was, you know, that this has been, I don't want to experience it again, and it's taught me life lessons. And one truth is that it's given me insecurities. One Truth is all of these truths can be true at the same time. Time and to be kind to yourself, is accepting that, that you're only human, that it's okay to feel that. But it's also true that whilst feeling that you can also feel the joys of life, you can also pursue the joys of life. And it doesn't have to be a conflict, yeah, there doesn't have to be a conflict between the two, and I think the kindest thing, and I've not done it by myself, Holly, I've done it with the help of other people. I've done it with the help of, you know, the woman who came to see me when I was, you know, I knew I was I couldn't I was having a breakdown. I knew I needed help. I knew I didn't want to commit suicide, but she helped me by just saying to me, it's okay to be angry. You know, it's just those little my, my acts of kindness, to me, have been shaped by my understanding, which has come from other people's acts of kindness. You know, it's a beautiful it's like, you know, it revolves. It just revolves and revolves. You know, you talk about all these people. I was watching Judy Roberts, you know, what was it when she traveled the film, eat, love, pray, yeah, Eat, Pray, Love. That was it. And I watched it. I was watching that. And you know, people are seeking themselves. They go through spiritual journeys and acts of kindness from other people and being kind. And actually, what, for me, there's something about, why have we got to that stage is humanity that we have to go seek, that when there is so much around us, ya know, there's something it conjures up so much. I was really looking forward to doing this podcast, because it's an emotional conversation. Yeah, you know, it's, there's a beautiful beauty about being congruent emotionally and being able to carry that and being able to express that so thank you.

Holly Newson  31:41

Well now, thank you so much for joining me. It was such a pleasure to read your book, to be able to read your story, and also to chat to you here.

Naz Shah  31:50

Thank you very much, Holly.

Music  31:51

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here till it goes.

Holly Newson  31:59

Thank you so much for listening. You being here and your support means so much to me now, as this perspective on how we sometimes need others to show us how to give kindness to ourselves, really resonated with me. This episode is dedicated to those people that allow us the time and space to reflect. So maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life, or someone else who might enjoy it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you, maybe as a voice note. So send that in at kind podcast.com or email me Holly at kind podcast.com and I will feature some of your stories on the show. If you like the show. Hit, subscribe, hit, follow, give it a rating or review. It helps me a lot. It was great to spend time with you. Speak soon.

Music  33:01

Sing, dream on and let your heart unfold.