A Glastonbury-goer paid for my massage | Gemma Cairney

Gemma Cairney  00:00

It really felt special and different. I don't, I don't think I felt that before because I just don't think that we're in a time where you'd expect anything like that to happen.

Holly Newson  00:16

Hey, I'm Holly, and I am so glad you're here. This is Kind, a show about the times people received an act of kindness and how that changed things. In this episode, you'll hear what makes a romantic relationship turn into a true partnership. By the way, you're really brave. Right, let me introduce you to someone. You're about to hear from Gemma Kearney, broadcaster, DJ, writer, and self-described life enthusiast. She's the author of The Immortal Sisterhood a book about 12 wondrous women from across history and how they've helped her navigate her own life as well. Gemma, welcome!

Gemma Cairney  00:56

Hello!

Holly Newson  00:57

So happy to have you.

Gemma Cairney  00:59

I've already been giggling, and we haven't even turned the mics on, so that's a good sign.

Holly Newson  01:02

It is a good sign. Lots of stuff are just about how clumsy we both are. So my first question to you is: What does being kind mean to you? Like, what do you think it means?

Gemma Cairney  01:13

It's something that comes from the heart. I think about my body quite a lot these days, and I feel like my body sometimes acts from different places, not just my mind. And when you're thinking about emotions, particularly in the positive, which kindness is, it's heartfelt, isn't it? And I think when I'm receiving kindness, it will warm my heart, and hopefully, when I'm being kind, which I hope is often, or at least try to practice, then it will come from my heart.

Holly Newson  01:51

So it's like almost like a a feeling, like a place within your body.

Gemma Cairney  01:54

Yeah,

Holly Newson  01:55

nice. I like that. I like that. That's a really different way of thinking about it than this kind of like intellectual, like what it means. It's like how it feels. That's lovely.

Gemma Cairney  02:07

Yeah, and I'm not sure like where that specifically has come from, but I do do this type of yoga that talks a lot about the heart space, which is quite woo. And I think that doing that for quite a long time, on and off, I'm not like every week or anything. I think that's really helped me understand that actually some of our acts do come from our body, and our heart is really important.

Holly Newson  02:35

So when someone comes on the show, I ask them to have a think of three times people have done something kind for them. So will you tell me a time that someone did something kind for you that stayed with you?

Gemma Cairney  02:47

So this one was like greatly sort of transactional, actually.

Holly Newson  02:53

Sometimes it is!

Gemma Cairney  02:53

From the woo woo to like just like the explicit act of kindness. When I was at Glastonbury two years ago, it was one of the rare times that I've been to Glastonbury where I wasn't working. I think I've been to 12 Glastonburys altogether, and only three of them I haven't been doing some kind of broadcast. Yeah. So this one was after the pandemic, and I felt a little bit out of sorts, like many of us did in big crowds.

Holly Newson  03:25

How how do you talk to humans?

Gemma Cairney  03:27

Yeah, how do we like all like dance together? And so there was a mixture of excitement, wildness, and discombobulation. I think as an energy, we went to the healing fields, which are just absolutely gorgeous. Like part of my favorite bit of Glastonbury, where you can really embrace the inner hippie. And I was showing around my boyfriend, who is still my partner, but he didn't grow up in the UK and doesn't understand the institution of Glastonbury, and was just like, "What is this place? Where have we landed? Like, what planet are we on? And it was really nice being in the healing fields and sort of seeing it through his eyes, like so for the first time, and saying, you know, this really is like the closest you could get to the 1960s. And I went into this big tepee and asked for a massage, and I think you have to put your name down or something. So I put my name down, and then they were like, "It's going to be however much it was in cash, please, because it's a festival and it's really hard to get cash. And I was like, "I just haven't got any cash, but I'll see if I can find a cash point. And then I just heard this voice, and it was this really tall guy, who like could have been somebody that I bumped into in a pub in East London, like very kind of like kind of normal, like he could be a pal, and he was just like, "I'll pay for your massage, and I was like, "What?" Cause no one ever like pays for anything, particularly strangers.

Holly Newson  05:04

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  05:04

and I was like, really? And he's like, seriously, like I really don't mind, like, and then just like put down the cash, and it was over 30 quid. It must have been about 45 quid, and I just thought, I said, that's so kind, and I just felt like Glastonbury gives everyone that heartfelt kindness.

Holly Newson  05:24

The festival atmosphere kind of brings it out in people.

Gemma Cairney  05:26

Generosity, and it, and also it felt so nice for somebody to pay for something that was about care. Essentially, it wasn't about indulgence. Don't get me wrong. Like you, you can always buy me a drink if you see me out and about. But just there was something so beautiful that he was like holistically paying it forward. I was really taken aback, and it was really sweet. I'd never met him. We hadn't exchanged two words. Did you talk apart from that? Not really. He didn't really. He was like quite shy. He's just like, yeah, just don't worry about it. Honestly, like I want to pay this for this for you. So he was an angel or a fairy or something dressed in a you know kind of standard hipster outfit.

Holly Newson  06:07

And what did it mean to you that that a stranger had kind of put money forward for your self care?

Gemma Cairney  06:16

It really felt special and different. I don't. I don't think I felt that before because I just don't think that we're in a time where you'd expect anything like that to happen. So everyone's a bit like cloak and dagger, like themselves to themselves. Put your phone away; it's gonna get stolen. And this, and then suddenly someone's just like, here you go like have some of my money, so you feel good.

Holly Newson  06:42

Yeah, like the opposite. You like think people are going to take, and instead they give.

Gemma Cairney  06:45

Yeah, yeah.

Holly Newson  06:47

Is it something that you have thought about paying forward in any way?

Gemma Cairney  06:50

I really try, particularly when working. If I am in any way like leading a project, I have a deep sense of duty of care, partly for being really young, and I think probably quite neglected from that perspective in a very fast, intense public profile industry that is entertainment and youth culture and live broadcasts for so long that I'm a bit like, is everyone okay? Is everyone feeling okay? And is there anything I can do to make you feel better if you're not? Obviously, that's all just like happening in the moment, and there's only so much preparation you can do for stuff like that.

Holly Newson  07:39

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  07:39

and life is always happening, but I really hope, particularly these days, like since I've become like a mom and like a proper grown ass woman, that if we are working together, that you know that I have this deep sense of duty of care and that I'm not very easily Shocked, and I'm just here for it. You know, I'm here for like whatever comes into the room, and sort of troubleshooting or brainstorming ways out of like the trickier stuff. And when I'm rich, I'll buy everyone a massage. I would love that. You know, like he who will not be named apparently is running America or whatever. Like he said something recently about giving like loads of people that vote for him like money. I would love to just flip that sentiment, you know, into this like deep, like hippie space and be like, let's all raise up together and get really wealthy, and then buy each other massages and flowers.

Holly Newson  08:46

Yeah, we can decide where we spend our money to an extent, right?

Gemma Cairney  08:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Holly Newson  08:50

And we can use that to fund a hippie vision of a kind future.

Gemma Cairney  08:57

Mutual aid,

Holly Newson  08:58

exactly. And how was that massage at Glastonbury?

Gemma Cairney  09:01

I think it was gorgeous. So yeah, I can't remember. I floated off.

Holly Newson  09:06

As you should.

Gemma Cairney  09:07

I definitely found my optimum, like relaxation and happiness in live music at Glastonbury the next day, which might have had something to do with the massage, because I had a glass of champagne and watch Diana Ross in the Sunday slot, and I was with my pals, including the glamorous Dorno Porter, who was the perfect person to watch someone as kind of Motown and shiny and cool as Diana Ross. So maybe it's because the guy paid for that massage, and then so I remember literally saying like, "This is my ultimate. This is my actual ultimate. Oh my god! Like, this is like so 70s. This is so like beautiful, and like this is how I want to do festivals. So we can we can decide that maybe.

Holly Newson  09:59

Maybe he had a hand in that gorgeous chain of events.

Gemma Cairney  10:02

Yeah, he did. It's all everything is connected. I believe that everything is completely interconnected, and that chain of events was gorgeous. So yeah, that was a good one. If you if you remember doing that, or you know someone that did that, like literally, who are you, my Glasto Fairy from 2023, I think. I want to like I don't know somehow reciprocate,

Holly Newson  10:26

Come forward and receive thanks.

Gemma Cairney  10:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Holly Newson  10:34

Can you tell me a time that someone did something kind for you?

Seren  10:37

So when I first moved to London, I didn't understand how the busses work. I didn't know where I was, where I lived, where that was in relation to the rest of London. And my first week, I got really, really lost, and my phone died, and I didn't have my wallet. And some guy just paid for my my bus fare so that I could get home, and he gave me directions, and it was just really sweet and lovely.

Holly Newson  11:00

Oh, that's so sweet. And so, what did it mean to you that you felt like in London someone is looking after you and and you know helping you get on your way?

Seren  11:11

It was really nice because I'm from a very small village where everyone knows each other, so it was really intimidating coming to London. And then just that one small thing in my first week, I was like, I'm gonna be okay. It's gonna be all right here.

Holly Newson  11:23

I love that. The busses are deeply confusing, so I don't blame you.

Seren  11:26

Yeah, they're they're a bit of a nightmare.

Holly Newson  11:30

And what's your name?

Seren  11:30

My name is Seren.

Holly Newson  11:32

Seren, thank you so much.

Holly Newson  11:39

So moving on to your second story of kindness, tell me what happened.

Gemma Cairney  11:43

I feel like my partner at the moment, like I really want to give him props, because we're both just trying to work and be in this very noisy world, and we're at the beginning of a parenting journey in some ways because we have two children, one of which has just turned two, and the other one is seven weeks old, and

Holly Newson  12:06

a very intense period.

Gemma Cairney  12:07

Oh my god! I brought out a book like three weeks after my second baby was born, and I was just like, "Oh my god, how are we going to do this? And he has been very patient, and I think patience is probably super super kind too. So yeah, we're definitely doing the balancing dance and doing a lot of talking.

Holly Newson  12:30

Yes, I think that's so important that level of communication because I mean your like body and mind is gonna have gone through so much through like you know, even just the hormonal, let alone the fact that you're you're physically looking after a two-year-old and and a baby. So, so in what ways has he kind of shown like his patience and his his action and his communication?

Gemma Cairney  12:57

It's just like a continuum. It's like to me, to you, like the Chuckle Brothers, like passing over a child, or like being allowed to like take a deep breath and say, you know, like the two-year-old having a tantrum right now is actually really challenging. Yeah, I can't put necessarily a brave face on this. I need to go for a walk. Yeah, food he's been feeding me, which is so obviously necessary and like to my vitality, but at the same time, when you're kind of exhausted and trying to prioritize, because I have been working through promotion of my book or parts of the project that are creative, and then also like breastfeed, like literally, I've been in Zoom meetings breastfeeding. Yeah. And then when somebody just gives you a plate of spaghetti, I will love this. Makes you want to cry. Yeah. So I would say that it's not one particular act, but it's a practice of kindness. Yeah, in my relationship.

Holly Newson  14:05

Yeah. Will you describe him to me? Like, what sort of a person is he?

Gemma Cairney  14:09

Everyone says that he's like super chill, which in so many ways he is. There's a song called Nature Boy about like a boy who is full of wonder for the world and and nature especially, and I would say that is Cam. I met him up a mountain, yeah, in 2018, where he was running an off-grid eco lodge in the northern parts of Malawi. Wow! And he was living in a treehouse. And now, when I say it, because it's so many years on, I'm like, "What's that film I watched? Or like a dream I had liked what happened. That's amazing, but it doesn't feel real. But so much has happened since, and. And we didn't get together then. I just thought he was quite an extraordinary human, like a kind of person I had never really met, and somebody who meets so many types of people and loves people and is fascinated and nosy about people. I always, I can always really, really remember and ponder over the really unique people, in terms of just being like, I just haven't, like, what makes you tick? Like, wow, this is so different, and that was Cameron then, and and still is in so many ways. Like, we've become, you know, entwined, so it's different. But he, like for example, he loves dogs, right? He loves them. He's grown up with them. He's got the dog that he grew up with called Scrappy, who was like this massive Rottweiler that used to roam around Montana, where he spent some of his like teenage years with him, and he's got Scrappy tattooed in a massive crown on his arm. Oh, so that kind of, I think, probably gives some clues as to the type of person that Cameron is. He's like probably quite tough on the exterior, but and like well traveled, and I know he. You went to high school where they had rodeo. Whoa! Now that is the sort of thing I watch in films, right? Right. And but at the same time, is made up of so many things, and is from everywhere, and lived in so many places, and he is really like sort of sweet, and I mean, we're both. I always think about how we're both Pisces. If astrology means anything to you, which is like all the fishes swimming in all the directions as a romantic relationship, and one that can probably be quite sensitive and full of water and quite like away with a fairy sometimes, or like kind of up in the clouds, but like super creative, and that makes for a great dad.

Holly Newson  17:10

Yeah. So, what impact does his kindness have on you?

Gemma Cairney  17:15

I think that when someone really close to you is genuinely kind to their core, it really helps you to be yourself.

Holly Newson  17:26

Yes, so

Gemma Cairney  17:28

So kind of warped and all because a kind person is going to forgive you if you're an idiot for an afternoon. You know, yeah. So I think that kindness in a romantic relationship, or now with this journey of like a family relationship, kindness is consistent and offers, like I think, offers an independence to, you know, the individual in whatever the kind of family get up might be, yeah. I think you know he's got quite a dry sense of humor too. So I think there's this like perfect mixture where it's a bit like bit of a water of a duck's back if I'm being Charlie Chaplin, which he's always like this physical comedy element of yours, hence our clumsiness, right? Yeah. I mean, I actually broke my leg, which I I know wasn't doing a routine, I wasn't doing a dance routine, but I was walking up Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh, and we'd only lived there for three days, and I was trying to do something nice on his birthday because it was a lockdown, and I slipped in the rain on his birthday, and yeah, I had to get an operation on my leg like within hours. And again, he was just so kind. Even in the recovery, I was allowed to have like a bit of a meltdown. Like once a day, I could like punch a pillow because I'd be so frustrated because I couldn't leave the sofa.

Holly Newson  19:04

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  19:06

I was filming a series at the time for Sky Arts about public art, and it was like meant to be going around the country. And I was like, I'm not going to be able to do it. And then he drove me in our theater panda like around the country, and I had crutches, and I'd like get out, and he would wheel me in a wheelchair to the makeup area every morning. Oh, and I had like a big thing, like a moon boot. And I know he's a pretty kind guy. I feel lucky. He sounds great. Yeah, he's a good one. He's a good egg. Obviously, no one is perfect. No, yeah, we don't want to. We don't want to inflate any egos. And I'm also not saying like like romantic relationships are the thing that make you like complete or anything.

Holly Newson  19:51

No, but just if you're forming a partnership, having kindness in that partnership is so key,

Gemma Cairney  19:59

and at the beginnings of building a family. I guess it's something that I think about quite a lot. Yeah, you know, like having had a kid like seven weeks ago, and that being my second in two years.

Holly Newson  20:11

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  20:11

and the birthing of a book.

Holly Newson  20:13

I can't believe you've done that at the same time.

Gemma Cairney  20:15

Oh my god! Then I guess I guess like the really really interpersonal, intimate relationships in my life, which include like my sister and like my neighbors and all these kinds of like relationships that sometimes we may take for granted. They're in full focus because I'm like help. It's great. It's great though that you're saying help, that you're putting out their help rather than just being like, "Yeah, I've got, I've got all of this. I can, I can carry everything. I literally can't, and that's like not expected. But like people obviously like sometimes they don't know. Yeah, it's true. It you know you saying that for me feels really wise because I think of all the lessons that I've learned in the past few years like turning 40 writing this book becoming mum blah blah falling in love like it's all very like special and magic but one of the lessons the really big hard lessons is learning how to receive as well as give, and like the reciprocity of relationships, and really knowing what my needs might be.

Holly Newson  21:35

Yes,

Gemma Cairney  21:36

like it is quite hard to like look at yourself that close in the mirror and be like, right, yeah,

Holly Newson  21:43

yeah,

Gemma Cairney  21:44

yeah. What do I really need here? And it does change, so it has to be like a like a like a review that we do a lot. But knowing what they are and then being able to ask for them is liberating.

Holly Newson  21:59

Yeah, completely.

Gemma Cairney  22:01

And for them to be heard.

Bryony  22:06

So my name is Bryony, and I work in a small pub in Bristol. It was one sleepy Sunday. I was working a solo shift by myself, and this older gentleman comes in. Couldn't have been. He must have been like late 60s, early 70s. Anyway, while I was serving him, I was experiencing some pretty like hefty period cramps. He asked me if I was right. I was like, "Yeah, no, sorry, I'm just having some period pain. He said, "Then went on to tell me about his family and how he has like five daughters and everything. And it was like, it was very sweet, very cute. So he finished his drink, and he sat there for like a long time. Went away, and then he came back. And I was like, "Oh, hey, welcome back. Kind of thing, blah blah. It's like, "Oh, how you feel? I said, "Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Anyway, always another drink. After he finished his drink, he sat there for a really long time. And just for context, the pub that I work in is not far from a train station, so it's not unusual for people to get a drink and then wait for a long time if they're like waiting for transport or whatever to just kick it in our pub without a pint, basically. Anyway, so I get up and I go for a wee, and then I come back and you know he's scuttling out of the door and I'm like, okay, corner groceries. Anyway, I look down and you know next to my book, next to my belongings, or whatever, there was a small handwritten note and a Kit Kat chunky, a peanut butter Kit Kat chunky, by the way, the most elite of Kit Kat Chunkies. And I really, really wish to this day I could. I still had the note, or I wish I could remember what the note said specifically, but it was essentially just along the lines of it's a woman's world, or we wouldn't be anywhere without women, kind of thing. Blah blah, like very, very much like who run the world, girls kind of moment. And I was like, oh my god, I really wish I could remember his name. I never got it, and to this day I really wish I did. And I that was about a year and a half ago, and I've never seen him since. And I still think about that all the time.

Holly Newson  24:12

The third act of kindness. I thought we would speak about the sisters in your book. So tell me an act of kindness that one of the immortal sisterhood has bestowed upon you, or bestowed upon all of us.

Gemma Cairney  24:26

Betty Davis came to my mind straight away. I could say something about every single one of these 12 incredible people. Yeah, but just going on gut today.

Holly Newson  24:37

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  24:38

Betty Davis is my sister, and there's so much kindness in her work, and I think sometimes it's really it's more complex to describe like the acts of kindness or reverence I feel for some of the women in the immortal sister because what they left behind is like. Like a more abstract legacy, you know, like a genderless ancient Egyptian pharaoh was a long time ago. That's a whole other podcast. I could tell you why she resonates with me.

Holly Newson  25:14

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  25:15

but Betty was a musician.

Holly Newson  25:18

Yes,

Gemma Cairney  25:18

and music is timeless, and we can all press play on a Betty Davis punk track and feel her kindness in her art.

Holly Newson  25:29

Yes, that makes me wonder what needs has of yours has Betty Davis met through her music and her work?

Gemma Cairney  25:38

That's so interesting. Well, I think representation is like the beginning and the obvious because she was a black woman and was unapologetically alternative and funky and wore silver thigh high boots and hot pants and grinded and sung from her gar and I think that that's so helpful and in reflection, kind like to so many of us that may be on the side of like weirder than the norm. Maybe really care about like funk as a philosophy, let's say, rather than just as a as a trend,

Holly Newson  26:25

yeah.

Gemma Cairney  26:25

She embodied funk, and for me, for who I am, that is an act of kindness. And I think that artists are so often so generous with their gift, and I also thought a lot about like writing, making, creating from a space of fear or trauma, and I think that some of the truly gifted artists Can transmute some of it and create something that is like uplifting, rather than just like drawing from the empty pot.

Holly Newson  27:14

They've gone to a place in themselves that can then be a lesson or a companion or something to people for years to come.

Gemma Cairney  27:23

Yeah, and I just love that because then it just becomes celebration. Because there's so many facets and dynamics to Betty's career, like she was quite often silenced or shoe shoeed or like try like try they tried to sort of erase her like from an industry perspective, but at the same time, her work's irrepressible, and for me, for me, it's kind of like a spiritual kindness. And when I listen to it, I'm just like, I see you, and you can have that that kind of priceless, timeless exchange with someone's work.

Holly Newson  28:09

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  28:09

music is a good medium for it.

Holly Newson  28:12

Is there something that either like a track that someone should go and listen to, or just something they should go and explore about Betty Davis, that you think will let them feel some of that that kindness or that spiritual connection?

Gemma Cairney  28:26

Yeah. So there is a track called F.U.N.K. It's like F.U.N.K with dots, and in it she like calls to all of the legacy or the the family tree of Funk. Yeah. And there's so many cool people in it, like Tina Turner's in it, you know. And you wouldn't necessarily think of Tina Turner as a funk artist or some of the old blues singers, and yeah. So that's quite a good like work of like research work as well, because she can give you the list, the extracurricular reading list in the song, and it's a great tune. To there's also a documentary about her called "They Say I'm Different, which is definitely worth watching. It's a bit sad, but you get the sense of her absolute brilliance, and that's how I was introduced to her. And it was too late. Like it's not like I grew up listening to Betty Davis. I went to see that film. I went to see a screening and got invited by a friend. And then I was just like, seriously, how do I not know about this woman? Like she's my idol.

Holly Newson  29:32

That's why you've written the book, right though because there's all these fantastic women who, you know, when we discover them, we feel like, wait, why did I not know this?

Gemma Cairney  29:42

I know, but isn't that interesting? Because there's this feeling that we're supposed to know everything. Yeah,

Holly Newson  29:47

yeah.

Gemma Cairney  29:48

Like I don't know. There's a lot of people kind of like hidden for a reason.

Holly Newson  29:53

And so to finish off, will you tell me what you think the kindest thing you've ever done for yourself is?

Gemma Cairney  30:01

oh, I think it's probably the amount of traveling that I've done. Yeah, actually, it's also in the book. But when I was just getting to the 12 week, three month post first trimester mark with my first kid, I did a residency in Colombia On an Afro-Colombian, an Afro-Colombian island called Tierra Bomba, and it's just off the coast of Cartagena. And I went to a beach club that's got a few rooms called Blue Apple, which is really special place. And I did writing there, and it was just like me and my tiny bump, just like sort of grounding into the fact that we were going to have an adventure. Yeah, and obviously there were people around, and an amazing woman runs like Blue Apple, and I was like spending time, like you know, speaking to people that work there and stuff. But there was just every day where I'd go and look at the sea and know that I was pregnant for the first time in my life, and that I'd reach that milestone of the 12 like week mark, like just me, myself, and I, but then not alone.

Holly Newson  31:18

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  31:19

and swim, and I felt like I was like swimming with my kid. I didn't know who was to come. I didn't know if it was a boy or a girl or anything. But I was just like, I think this is going to happen. Yeah, you and me. Whoa! And I was there for two weeks, and it felt a bit brave to be somewhere so like far away from home in that time,

Holly Newson  31:45

yeah.

Gemma Cairney  31:46

But it felt really, really nourishing as well.

Holly Newson  31:50

So is that what you'd say that it gave to you? It gave you nourishment,

Gemma Cairney  31:55

yeah. Because I love the sea. I love that part of the world. I love like the rhythm and the color and the references of like that particular you know frequency in the map. The fact that it's like Colombia and there's like such rich history of Afro Colombia and like where it is now, and being there, just feeling really humble and lucky to be able to write, continue writing my book somewhere, like kind of in some ways quite futuristic because like Blue Apple is completely sustainable. There's no plastic on site, etc. I don't know, just these safe places of coming together. It just felt right. It just felt like cool and right, and the kind of bold things that I would like my daughter.

Holly Newson  32:58

Yeah,

Gemma Cairney  32:59

who she ended up being. I didn't know that she was my daughter, but I want her to be able to take herself off to any part of the world to write and be and live.

Holly Newson  33:10

What is it about travel that you can that you think can be such a kindness to ourselves?

Gemma Cairney  33:15

There's something about atmospheres, so being it can definitely be translated in temperature, so like being in another climate can feel really again nourishing. But I also think like the way things are put together, so architecture or sound comes to me a lot because I've I've done a lot of traveling with work. But atmospheres, I think, can be really regenerative and exchange with people outside of language or stereotyping-it's like suddenly, suddenly connection like nothing else. And I am really lucky to have been able to experience that in so many ways. I've been in Ethiopia, like meeting beekeepers for an Oxfam project, where like women in rural areas were being empowered, like with the skills to be like the head of businesses in their villages, and honey is like a huge trade in parts of the country and God, like going like into the middle of the countryside in different parts of Ethiopia and like meeting women who had like their hands in beehives and then like kid on like their boob and just like producing honey and being so amazing and so like at one with nature, that's a pretty sacred atmosphere to be in.

Holly Newson  34:48

Yeah, 100% Well, Gemma, thank you so much for this gorgeous chat. Thank you for immortalizing the sisterhood in writing and in. If you want to listen to it on Audible, yes, you can.

Gemma Cairney  35:03

I was four days away from my due date, so I was like a complete like I don't even know what I was in that studio. But

Holly Newson  35:13

well, I've listened to some of it, and it sounds it sounds all good.

Gemma Cairney  35:15

I think it sounds okay, but I was like, whoa! I am a puddle.

Holly Newson  35:22

Well, everyone has got that to enjoy, and the book, Gemma. Thank you so much.

Gemma Cairney  35:27

Thank you, thank you.

Holly Newson  35:36

Thank you so much for listening. You being here and your support means a lot to me. I loved Gemma's Glastonbury story, and that amongst all those post-pandemic feelings of how am I supposed to be around other people, one man went, "Well, I guess we just help each other out." This episode is dedicated to anyone who has sent a massage your way or some other form of self-care. Maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life, or someone else who might enjoy it. I would also love to hear from you about a time someone was kind to you. So send that in at kindpodcast.com, or you can email me holly@kindpodcast.com, and I will feature some voice notes on the show. If you like the show, hit subscribe, hit follow, give it a rating or a review. That stuff helps me so much. It was great to spend time with you. Speak to you.

Music  36:35

And let your heart unfold.