He was the best of men | Nikita Gill

Nikita Gill  00:00

I'm like, I'm doing this really badly. And she'd be like, can I tell you secret? It doesn't matter if you do it badly. It matters if you do it.

Holly Newson  00:11

Oh, hey, welcome to kind I'm so glad you're here. I'm Holly Newson, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times people were kind to them and how that changed things. This episode, you'll hear how a grandma an encyclopedia and perhaps some chocolate cake form a recipe for creativity. By the way, your emotions are valid, right? Let's drop you straight in.

Holly Newson  00:37

My guest today is poet, author, playwright and creator of things. Nikita Gill, welcome and thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me.

Nikita Gill  00:47

I'm so delighted to be here that you're doing this.

Holly Newson  00:51

Just a joy

Holly Newson  00:53

to start with, I wanted to ask, what does kindness mean to you? What does being kind mean to you?

Nikita Gill  01:01

You know, I once wrote a poem that basically said, to be compassion, compassionate and to be kind is to feel the beating heart of the world under your fingers and not flinch. Right?

Nikita Gill  01:14

And I think there's something incredibly powerful about people who are able to look at another human being and not see a stranger, but see someone with a full life who deserves, who deserves hope and kindness and just, you know, help in moments that they're in pain.

Nikita Gill  01:33

I think the phrase kindness is so vast, and it's such a big umbrella, because there's so many ways that you can be kind to people, yeah, and it depends on how you choose to be.

Nikita Gill  01:45

And I know people use be kind like a slogan, but I think it's less slogan, more motto.

Nikita Gill  01:53

We should all adopt it. We should because we all need it.

Holly Newson  01:56

Yeah, I think it's, I find it's, like, really multifaceted in that, like, like you said, there's, there's small things, there's huge things, there's, there's moments of kindness, where it's just about the truth, but then it's also about how you deliver that truth and the kindness there. There's just, I think there's so many facets.

Holly Newson  02:21

So when guests come on the show, I ask them to have a think about three times people have done something kind for them. And this was the first thing Nikita wanted to share.

Nikita Gill  02:31

So my I'm not very good at asking for help. It's, I think, call it eldest daughter syndrome. Call it like, you know, having to be strong for other people, call it not wanting to seem whatever, like the idea I've internalized of asking for help is weakness. I'm not very good at asking for help. It's something I've been working on for many, many years now, and because I'm not good at asking for help, when I go through painful things, I tend to regress into myself, and I deal with it, and then I come out, you know, and I think, oh, you know, that's how you do it, and you're strong. It took me having a friend who understood when I was grieving and

Nikita Gill  03:22

and helped, just without me having to, like, even ask. So my friend Nerm, he is one of the coolest people I know. So he's a DJ, he's a producer. He does he's like, he wears many hats. He's also the fire starter of my band with this amazing artist, nali, and he is one of those people who knows. He's able to look at human beings, know when they are suffering, especially the ones who are close to them and call and over the last four years, I faced a lot of loss. I've lost a grandparent a year for the last three years, which has been really hard. No one tells you hard it is to watch your parents become the elders of the family when you are used to having your elders. And so grief has been very cyclic in my life. Nerm has always called, always messaged, and it's you know when you know someone is grieving, and I know, I know I'm guilty of this, you call once, you ask if they need help, and you talk to them about it. And for a lot of people, that's it, right? But grief is an ongoing process, and num is not afraid of my grief or anyone's grief, and I think that's incredibly powerful, because he won't just go once. He will consistently check in. He will make sure that he is there. He's available, and he has been available to me in the worst possible moments of my life in the last five years. And I think there's something very powerful to be said for someone who. Can continuously see people in grief and hold them through that grief. And it's, it's not just a question of a true friendship. That is the value system a person has on the inside, yeah, to be able to see someone grieving and just go, I'm not afraid of your grief. I'm not afraid of your pain. Yeah, he's taught me a lot about how to how to hold people through grief, and how to be there for them. In in more than just the capacity of, are you okay? How can I help? Yeah, in, you know, because when someone's grieving, they don't really know how to a how to ask for help. But also, when you ask someone, how can I help? You're basically putting it on them to ask you, yeah, like, and I think the easier thing to do is making a list in your head of, like, the things the person might need. And you know, even if you risk getting it wrong, chances are you won't, you know, taking someone out for a meal or, like, just going for a coffee, you know, and then letting them lead the conversation. It's small things like that, and the consistency of it,

Holly Newson  06:08

yeah,

Nikita Gill  06:09

that's really beautiful.

Holly Newson  06:10

When did you realize that Nerm was a safe space for your grief?

Nikita Gill  06:15

I think it was. So this actually was four, four years ago, five years ago. No, four years ago, or even three years ago. Actually, 2022, February, my partner's best friend passed away, and it was enormously hard, because he was really young. He passed away a week before his 32nd birthday. And, you know, laws Lawrence was a big part of my partner's life. He was like a brother to him. And I was in Dubai at the time that we got this news. We knew he was ill, but we got this news when I was in Dubai and I wasn't I wasn't there. I literally canceled my trip back home and was going to fly back, but that night, I was all by myself in that hotel room. I was doing the Emirates festival. And the Emirates festival people were wonderful. They were so lovely, but they I didn't know them. I wanted to be with my people, which was my partner, and like the friend friend circle that knew laws, and num called me that night, and he stayed on the phone with me. He stayed on the phone with me, and he talked me through it. And I was in a bad way. I was in a bad way. I wasn't admitting it to myself, but I was, and he was, he was there for me, and he talked me through it, and I think that is the first time that I've let someone who is a friend see me that way. Yeah, you know, I wasn't even good at letting my now fiance see me that way. And it's, it was so revealing to me to be able to just let someone be kind to me in that moment and how much it meant to me, and I was like, I can't believe I've reached my, like, mid 30s and not, not allowed, let you know, not allowed someone to see me crumble, because I've always thought that that was weakness, whatever weakness, air quotes on that. But there's, you know, num actually showed me that it's some, it's very strong to be able to see some, to see someone crumble, or for them to trust you, to see them crumble, it's a great privilege, yeah, and it's an honor. And he taught me that, yeah,

Holly Newson  08:41

it is really hard to let yourself be vulnerable in that way. You never, you never know before someone shows you whether they can hold that, whether you know they have space for that. So for that person to Yeah, not only provide you that safety, but also for you to then allow yourself to be helped. It's so massive. I can relate to a lot of a lot of that yeah and so when you think about those moments where none was there and let you be however you needed to be, how does that make you feel?

Nikita Gill  09:33

I mean, I think, I think I cry more openly now in front of people, and I'm not afraid of letting people see me that way. I cried today. It's in front of a lot of people, in fact, strangers who I didn't know, but who were very, very good people, because they were there and they comforted me through that kindness is everywhere, really, if we just allow people in and let them be kind to us. I think a lot of us are almost afraid of kindness, because we live in a world where we are taught individualism is more important than community, and because we live in a world that puts that across, we expect people to be unkind or indifferent. So when people are kind, it's almost like a surprise. Yeah, it's a shock to the system, a system which has been trained to think that people are either going to be unkind or indifferent. And so yeah, his consistency as this very dear friend, but also as just a person who lives his life being kind to others has taught me a lot.

Holly Newson  10:53

Can you tell me a time that someone did something kind for you? Can be big or small, recent ages ago,

Speaker 4  11:01

my nephew has been kind to my little boy recently, and was that's something I remembered.

Holly Newson  11:08

What did he do?

Speaker 4  11:10

He was looking after him in the in like a very busy playground.

Speaker 2  11:17

The other day, I was getting the bus and didn't have my card or anything, bang, and the bus driver let me on anyway, like, as the sky,

Holly Newson  11:26

That's lovely. I feel like that's also pretty rare.

Speaker 2  11:29

Yeah, I know, yeah.

Holly Newson  11:41

And do you have a time that you could share where a stranger has done something kind for you?

Nikita Gill  11:46

Oh, my God. So this story, I hold this story close, because this happened over the last few years, not to complain about technology and sound like a massive auntie, but I got this phone about two, three years ago now. And this must have happened about two years ago. It was post the pandemic, and I remember, I was in London, and I just about, just about come to, like, the point of, like, not carrying my god with me, because I was like, I've got it on my phone, you know, everything is like, Apple, pay, or something like that. I will be fine. And this must have happened about a few weeks later, because, you know, as as these things always do, and I was on the tube, and I remember I was listening to, and this is going to sound so funny, but, you know, the show, Wednesday, yeah, there's a beautiful cello piece. I'll keep it black, yeah. So there's a beautiful cello piece that that Wednesday, Adams, Jen Ortega's, Jen. Wednesday, Adams plays in the in the show. And I had it on my phone, and I was looking for the piece on Spotify, and my phone froze while stuff is on the underground, right and now everything is on there. I don't have my cards, so there's no way for me to get off out of the underground. My ticket, my train ticket, is on there. My money is on there. I don't know my partner's number by heart anymore, because we live in a time that you don't right. The only number I know my heart is my mum's number in India. So that's

Holly Newson  13:25

very, very practical, very

Nikita Gill  13:27

practical, right? And of course, like, I get off at the tube station, and I don't like it's in that second because I'm trying to switch my phone off, and it's not going off because my phone has frozen. Like there is a particular method, but at the time, I didn't know it. It's getting late, and I have no way home, and I am essentially a woman. I don't live in London, so I'm essentially a woman trapped in London on the underground by myself, and it's getting late. That's scary. It was winter, so of course, it got dark early as well. That's scary. It is scary for anyone. And of course I start panicking, because I'm like, What am I going to do? I can't even get out of the tube station. Like, what am I going to do? And I think the Panic was very visible on my face, because it's Russia, and this man stops, like older gentleman stops, and he's looking at me because he can see the panic. And I'm walking very quickly. I'm walking, walking, walking. And he I can see him coming from a distance, and he comes from a distance, and finally he comes, he's close enough to me to say, are you okay? Because obviously the panic must have been really clear on my face. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. My phone is frozen. And he's like, Okay, that's all right. Can you show me? And he had a very gentle, calm voice, so that made me go, Okay, this seems like a safe he had really kind eyes and a really gentle voice. And I was like, Okay, this seems like a safe person. Person. I had to trust my instinct. He was the first person to stop and help, and I really didn't know what to do. He said, can you show me? Just show me in your hand what's going on. So I showed him, and I showed that nothing was happening. He's like, okay, there is a way to switch your phone off and back on again. It can reset. This is not going to be a problem. Let me show you. And he kind of showed me on his own phone, because he knew, intrinsically, he knew that this is a young woman by herself, and this will probably make her panic if I take her phone off her right? Yeah. So he had the awareness and sense of self to know that push this button up, push this button down, and then push the side button for a long time, and I did what he said, my phone went off, and then I was able to switch it back on again, and it worked. And literally, I had no I burst into tears. That was the moment I chose to burst into tears, because I think the panic had kept me going until that point, yeah, and he didn't, because I was crying. He was he stayed with me like he, you know, he we walked to the side because he's like, we'll get out of all of these people's way. And he stayed with me, and he until I stopped crying and I stopped shaking, and he's like, are you okay? I said, I'm fine. Thank you so much. He's like, it's, it's no, it's like, five minutes of my day, it's okay, you know? And he must have been busy. He was wearing a suit. He must have had somewhere to go, whatever. But it was so kind of him to have stopped and helped me right in that moment. And there's so many things that in that one moment, he changed like, you know, this fear that I had around, you know, all strangers, all essentially strange men, you know, being wary of people in London, being wary of people like on the underground, specifically, you're taught all of these things. You're socialized into those things in a single second of like five minutes of kindness. That man had completely dispelled all those notions. And I you know he was in obviously, he was in a hurry to get wherever he was. He had taken those five minutes out of his day. I didn't even get to ask him his name, but to the gentleman who helped me, like at Kings Cross that day, I think about two years ago, I really, really, really appreciate what he did. I don't know what I would have done if he hadn't done that.

Holly Newson  17:20

Yeah, and that moment, you know, it's two years ago. It's technically just a passing five minutes of a day, but has meant so much to you that that's something that you remember and you hold onto, and that even you say like, slightly changed your view of what strangers can be in in that setting that's that's in incredible when he stayed with you while you were crying and letting that, I guess, like adrenaline out. Did he say anything? Or did you just? Did he just stay with you?

Nikita Gill  17:59

He just stood there, and I think, you know, I I feel like we have a habit of trying to fill space, like, when there's sometimes people just need some you to stand next to them and not say anything, because they're dealing they're trying to, like, pull themselves back together. Whoever he was, he must have either experienced that or seen people go through trauma, or he just knew that this person doesn't need me to say anything to her. She just needs someone to make sure she's all right, you know, like, and he just stood there, and he waited until like I'd stopped, and like I was okay, and he asked me if I was all right. Then he left. He went on his day. And I think something intrinsic in him must know that that was all I needed at the time. And there's something very powerful about that to have the not just the self awareness, the awareness of other people, to know what they need in that moment of time. Funnily enough, that connects to Nam, who's able to also know. And I think that's that's powerful, yeah, stuff, it's funny, because I don't know why I had forgotten, forgotten this, but someone had shown me how to, like, unfreeze my phone. I had actually had, like, an experience like this, and I didn't make the connection back to that. I just panicked instead, but this person stopping and helping me, good. Thank you.

Holly Newson  19:28

Yeah, that's amazing. I just, I feel like those moments like on the tube, when you're out and about, you never know how much what a small part of your life can be a big part of someone else's.

Nikita Gill  19:43

And I've seen, I've seen people do, like, just yesterday, there was a lady who got on with her cat, and her cat is a Maine Coon. So, you know, Maine coons are massive, like the and it was like, on, like, a leash, you know, like a little, like, harness. And you never really see cats. Like that, and he was just this, this, I'll show you photos afterwards, but he was so like, just he, he was his mom's full torso size, and she was just holding him, and he was so well behaved. And I think everyone on the tube was smiling. It made everyone's day like he was just like, looking at everywhere. It's adorable, but small things, yeah, it really can make your day,

Holly Newson  20:24

yeah, oh, 100% I am the sort of person. I love cats. I also love dogs, and I will, if there's a dog getting on the like the train door or the tube door, I will walk down to that door so I can get on the same near it, yeah? Just, it just makes me smile. Do you have a dog? Don't have a dog. I have a cat.

Nikita Gill  20:45

Yeah, me too. I've got two cats. But I love dogs. I do love the way they come up to you. I live in, you know, obviously, outside of London, this lovely place called Basingstoke, and people's dogs just are so cute. They'll just come running to you across the park. I've had a Great Dane. I've been lying on the grass, and I've had a Great Dane sit on me and somehow not crush my ribs. It was an amazing experience. And the owner came running up, and she was wearing like, a black and white polka dot dress, and the Great Dane was black and white. And I'm like, wow, did you choose to match your You are amazing. And the way she just, like, gets great din off me, and I'm and she's like, I'm so sorry. He still thinks he's a puppy. And I'm like, Oh my God, my cat was

Holly Newson  21:30

like that. So she's a Siberian, so not as big as a Maine Coon, but still quite big. And when she was yet in that kind of like, Guess, teenage kitten phase, she didn't realize that she had got quite large. And she would try to get through small gaps, or she would think she could sit on something that would just like, start teetering and falling over. Yeah, I love animals when they're like, Oh yeah, I fit here, right?

Nikita Gill  21:52

I think I, if I don't fit here, I will make myself fit here, like, you can't,

Holly Newson  21:59

yeah, those little things that like, oh, bring joy to a day.

Nikita Gill  22:03

Yeah, really, really bring joy to a day.

Speaker 3  22:05

My partner was very kind. She got me a sweet treat from. Where was it from? Greggs? So she got my daughter one, but she knew what I liked. She bought one as well. That was kind that's the last thing I can remember.

Holly Newson  22:28

What's your what's your go to? What did she get you?

Speaker 3  22:29

It was a custard cream donut.

Speaker 4  22:33

Nice. Good choice.

Speaker 5  22:38

Well, I was camping over the weekend, and it was really hard to get the pegs in, so we ended up asking someone else if they had, like, a mallet, and they did, so we ended up borrowing that and using that to get the pegs in. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the tent would have flown away in the wind.

Holly Newson  22:53

Was it a windy weekend?

Speaker 5  22:54

Yeah, it wasn't so great. But yeah,

Holly Newson  22:58

so someone saved you from from losing a tent overnight.

Speaker 5  23:01

Yeah, pretty much.

Holly Newson  23:08

Thank you both so much. Really appreciate it.

Holly Newson  23:16

And do you have another kind thing that you would like to share?

Nikita Gill  23:19

Yeah, so this one is more, I think, you know, like the stories which I shared, like there's one which is of a friend, so it's the family you choose. One is of a stranger. And I think there's something really powerful about having someone in your family be very, very kind to you and see you as a person, especially. So I was a very lonely child. There's a lot going on in the background over there, but I was a very lonely child, and I think the place that I found safety was my books. I loved reading, so it's not surprising. I grew up to be a writer, and books gave me a very, very big escape. But everyone needs someone to be able to talk to, because we are not, you know, we're not islands. And as much as like we're taught in this world that we are meant to be individualistic, community is what drives us, and community is what gives us hope and community. And the first community you have, really, is your family, right? That's the community. And then you have the extended community. Extended Community, or your parents' friends or like your extended family. My grandmother was my community. She's my community because she must have sensed that there is a loneliness in me, and her home was in Jammu, and at the time, you didn't have internet or anything, it would take about eight hours for us to drive up there. But she had this beautiful home, which is like a farmhouse, essentially. She had massive gardens, and she grew a lot of flowers. And, like, there was, like, what we call a jeweler. A swing outside our house in the garden, and, you know, she makes I think there's something amazing, and I hope everyone gets to experience this on some level, a mother or grandmother who cooks really well, she's an excellent like, Baker and cook. So the lemonade in our house was amazing. Like, there was always, like, strawberries and cream in the summer, you know, and garden, like grown strawberries, basically from her own garden. And, like, she'd make the cream herself. And like, chocolate cake, no one makes chocolate cake. Like my Nani, basically. And my grandmother's house very much became because the Encyclopedia Britannica was basically inside my inside the room I used to sleep in. Yeah. So I grew up surrounded by these amazing books being looked after by this wonderful woman who saw me as a person and would talk to me about everything. She would talk to me about kindness, and she would talk to me about what spirituality meant to me, you know, and she's a religious person, but you know, she wouldn't put what she believed on me. She would treat me as my own whole person who could also teach her things. And I think there's something very powerful about having an elder who sees you that way, who doesn't just see you as a child or a grandchild or my daughter's child, but as a human being and as a person, right? Who will go out and do their own things and have their own dreams. So I was always given, like a lot of space to write, and she really encouraged me for doing that. I was always told to sing. I was always told to like. If I wanted to act, act like I I'm a lover of the arts. I do all of it. And the reason I do all of it is because she built me the safe haven to do all of those things and it. And she said to me repeatedly, I remember because I used to feel quite self conscious. I'm like, I'm doing this really badly. And she'd be like, can I tell you secret, it doesn't matter if you do it badly. It matters if you do it. And I think that's so powerful, yeah, as a young artist, to hear the words, it doesn't matter if you do it badly, as long as you love what you do and as long as you do it,

Holly Newson  27:21

yeah, that is wonderful advice. Can you describe her to me? What did, what did she look like? What was, what did her presence feel like?

Nikita Gill  27:33

Yeah, I feel like it's such a cliche thing to say when some you know when you say that someone feels like home, but my grandmother very much feels like my home. Yeah, she's my only surviving grandparent now. And my partner knows this, my family knows this, my friends know this. She is the great love of my life. She is my guiding light. She is a beacon to me. And, yeah, I miss her a lot because she lives there and I live here. So whenever I go home, I make sure I go and visit her, and I hug her and I love her, because she's probably, I would say one of the most, or actually the most important person in my life, because so much of who I am today is because of her and because of my grandfather and who they were, who they are, as people. I just lost my grandfather. He died on his 96th birthday a week ago, and it has been very difficult because it feels like the world is a little bit smaller since he's gone, because he was such a large presence in my life. And it's the funny thing about grief is no one tells you that the world will keep spinning. Things will keep happening, and the world doesn't stop when you grieve. And it's funny, because as human beings, we think that is what when we go through a great loss, everything starts feeling strange, because the world hasn't changed. You have Yeah, you know, but you expect the world to change because you've changed. All that's changed is your perspective on the world,

Holly Newson  29:23

and your perspective definitely does change. I wondered if you wanted to share your grandfather's name so that we can speak his memory?

Nikita Gill  29:34

Yeah, yeah. My grandfather's name was Lieutenant General Prem Singh Federa, and I think my father put it beautifully. In his eulogy that he was a soldier from the time of his mother's womb all the way till when he died. He had dementia in his final years, and so he was in the Indian Army. And one of the things that he taught me. Me since I was very young, was to know, to hold on to your heart and to know you know your own strength and your inner strength of who you are as a person. It's quite interesting. You know that we live in a time as we do, because we are renegotiating constantly what it means to be human. And my grandfather and I used to disagree. I'm a pacifist. Obviously, I don't necessarily agree with the concept of, like, you know, armed warfare. I don't agree with any of I'm a pacifist, but I'm also very aware that the world as we know it has come to the way that it has because of a lot of war, you know, and that's our history. And, you know, people like my grandfather joined the armed forces because at the time he he always did want to join the army, but there were like, three careers available, I think, to people back in those days, especially in, you know, India. We're talking post partition India, post freedom India. But there were so many things that I think people didn't realize about the people who join those, like the men who joined those the armed forces. My grandfather is an amazing storyteller. You know, he had a very big heart. He's a fantastic artist, you know, like he used to be very good at, like, sketching, sketching things and stuff. And he was a very disciplined man. He benefited from discipline and from, you know, from what the Army provided that way, like structure, discipline. He was very old school that way, but he gave me those things. He gave me discipline in my life, and he gave me structure. And, yeah, he used to encourage me to speak my mind. And he's like, if you disagree with the fact that I'm in the army, that's fine. Speak your mind about it, and he didn't take it as a personal insult, yeah, and he didn't take it as anathema, and he just used to let me talk,

Holly Newson  32:12

yeah, to allow someone to disagree with something you do, but to be happy, to hold that space, to allow them to express that. Yeah, that's so, so nurturing.

Nikita Gill  32:26

It is. It is. And like, another thing, like, I think we're living in a time where we have to, like, acknowledge the fact that, like, we all have family members who we may not necessarily agree with, right? And we may stand on like opposite sides of the political spectrum from those people, or, you know, we may morally disagree with those people, but what matters is that you are able to speak your mind to those people. You know, you have to be able to do that in a family. And my grandfather, there were a lot of things. He was Kashmiri, you know. And partition had left very deep scars on his family, very deep scars on his family. So him joining the armed forces was actually something that he did because he felt a sense of protection towards Yeah, you know. And it was a very difficult time for anyone who lived in that area, and Kashmir, especially, because Kashmir was a particularly special case. He he became the man he was, and he was an incredibly courageous man, and he was incredibly strong man. I always say, I've said this a lot over the last 10 days, he was the best of men he was, and he was a very nurturing man. And I think there's when you see masculine figures who are supposed to be like the emblem of machismo, and he very much was who are also very soft and who are also very nurturing and also very tender. That's who he was.

Holly Newson  34:03

He sounds amazing.

Nikita Gill  34:04

Yeah, he was, he was an amazing man. It's hard to say was as well, because I still feel like in India, in my culture, we believe that you're, you know, they haven't, they haven't left the people who you who they've just, you know your ancestors are just in the next room. Yeah, you know they're just next door, having a good chat, probably having drink, probably making fun of you. Like knowing knowing them. But yeah, he was the last of his friends to go. So I'd like to imagine that they were all waiting there, going

Holly Newson  34:38

come join

Nikita Gill  34:41

Jesus. Took you long enough, good God, man

Holly Newson  34:50

and your grandmother, who was your, you know, who, who felt like home, and you said you were, you know, you felt like you were quite a lonely child. World, and then you were in this room with all these, you know, encyclopedias. How did that change? How you were able to express yourself as a person, going from someone who in, maybe in that lonely state was perhaps a bit inside themselves.

Nikita Gill  35:19

You know, I think what's really hard about being a lonely child is that you if there is, like, you know, bullying or any kind of abuse or anything going on in the background of your life, you're forced to grow up a lot faster than your peer group is right. So you don't relate to your own peer group, and you kind of struggle to relate to older children as well or younger children, because children don't have the language to talk about things like bullying and abuse when they're young. They just don't like it's just not something which we teach children. We're doing better with it now, but when I was young, certainly not right. My grandmother was able to see that without me having to verbalize it right, because she just had the intuition that something is happening with this child, which she doesn't feel comfortable speaking about. So all I can do is build her this safe haven by giving her the thing that she loves most, which is she likes learning, she likes books. So I'll give her the space to do those things. I'll encourage her to like do the things she loves and and she did and she did that. That's what she did for me, and I think that's the kindest thing you can do for a lonely child, because they literally don't have anyone in their peer group who they can talk to unless there is another child who's going through the same painful things. And then also, how do you make those children talk to each other? Because neither of them are going to want to talk about those things. So yeah, I'm very grateful that I had two very amazing elders in my life who made me the way that I am.

Holly Newson  37:07

Had you or have you spoken to them about about those moments when you were young and forming who you were? Have you spoken to them about what that has meant to you.

Nikita Gill  37:22

My first story that was ever published I was 12 years old, was about my grandfather and how much I respected and admired him and taught the world of him, really. And it was a story about him during partition and the incredible act of courage that he did. He gave up his seat, or, like, his family was leaving. And there were like, you know, there was a lot of pain. There were a lot of people like, there's a lot of violence, you know, which was repeatedly visiting homes, families, etc. And my grandfather, he was one of four siblings, and there were his parents, and they were trying to leave everything. They had to, obviously, leave everything behind in Kashmir and go. And my grandfather did this incredible, incredible thing. There was a father and his daughter who came asking, you know, because there were not enough vehicles to take everyone. And they came asking, and there was only one seat free on my grandfather's parents jeep. And my grandfather looked at this young girl, and he looked at the father, he's 17, and he said, You know what, take my seat. And the whole family got really upset. They were like, we're not going to leave you behind here. This is really dangerous. And he gave up his seat and he like, he was like, he insisted his value system was so strong. He insisted he was like, no, no, no, she's a very young girl, like she must have been about 1314, you have to take her, because what was happening at the time during partition was young, beautiful girls, and she was a very beautiful girl. Were being kidnapped, you know, and taken or assaulted. I think it was like 1 million women at the time or something, or hundreds of 1000s. It was a very, ridiculously high number. All of this was happening, and my grandfather was like, I can't have that on my conscience. He was 17 years old, and they had, he insisted. They left without him with this girl and her father, he insisted. And I don't know how my great grandfather managed to find him again, but he found him three months later. He was going. He went on a bus, looking from place to place, right, and on one of the final stops, like he was really starting to get quite tired, and he was almost giving up hope, like he's like, maybe he's died, like we died, because there were like, trains full of bodies arriving at like stations and stuff. At the time, it was so traumatic, and people never. Found their loved ones, right? Like, that's how things were. And my grandfather, like my great grandfather, was about to give up, and then the bus stopped in, like, one of the bus points at Kashmir, like bus stations. And this, this group of extremely grubby boys, teenage boys, gets on, and they all have lattes, which are like, very big sticks. And my great grandfather's like, Who are these boys? And it turns out there's like, a group of boys who, and this was happening, who were like, who had basically become self appointed security for, like, whatever families were left behind, like little communities of families that were left behind. They were like self appointed security to protect them. And my grandfather was one of those boys who had managed to board that bus. It is an incredible story, so I took that story and I put it in, like I wrote about it, because it's such a powerful story. Yeah, and then the Hindustan Times, one of the supplements picked it up. So I am a writer today because I was published when I was 12 years old, writing this story about my grandfather, my entire Genesis story is these two people from my family. My entire Genesis story who I am as a poet and writer today is directly down to who they are. Yeah, and this is why I always say to parents and grandparents that if you see talent in a kid, foster it, nurture it, encourage it.

Holly Newson  41:25

Yeah, I also wondered if you could tell me what the kindest thing you've ever done for yourself is

Nikita Gill  41:36

quite funny, because I was having a conversation with a friend about this a week ago, two weeks ago, and I said the nicest thing I've been I've ever done for myself, is learn the magic of saying I cannot. I cannot, instead of I can, I can, I can. I'm very I'm very much the kind of person who will work until I overextend myself, and then I'll feel like I'll feel horrible, or my immune system will shut down, I'll fall sick. Those were the ways I used to stop and the best gift I've ever given to myself is to just turn around and say, I cannot. I cannot. Today. I am going to take a day, stay at home, sit in my garden and drink an iced coffee today, instead of, like, going and, like doing X, Y, Z, work, yeah, and maybe, like doing a meeting or doing this or doing that. No, today is the day I'm going to sit in my garden, cross legged on the grass, and drink some iced coffee. That is what I need to do today. So I cannot, and just saying the words I cannot do myself or even know, yeah, that's the kindest thing I've done for myself.

Holly Newson  42:47

That is very good kind thing. Give yourself space to listen to what you what your body needs before it has to scream it, which I have also done. There's a poem that you wrote and shared recently, and you can 100% say no to this, but I thought it resonated with a lot of the themes. And yes, I wondered if you would read, of

Nikita Gill  43:08

course, of course. Oh, yeah, in a world besieged by heartache and agony, we all have the choice to be storms or lighthouses to each other, may we choose to be beacons rather than despair. Yeah,

Holly Newson  43:31

thank you.

Nikita Gill  43:32

Thank you.

Holly Newson  43:33

This has been such a wonderful chat. I really appreciate you coming and sharing your stories, such stories of brilliant kindness.

Nikita Gill  43:43

Thank you. Thank you. I think. I think great kindness requires great courage, and I think all of us could do with both right now. Yes, thank you for having me, Holly.

Music  43:58

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here till they go.

Holly Newson  44:05

Thank you so much for listening. You being here, and your support means so much to me. I could bask in the presence of Nikita Gill all day long. She's such a beautiful storyteller, and I'm honored that she shared stories of the people she's grieving. This episode is dedicated to anyone who has held us in our grief. Maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life, or someone else who might enjoy it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you. So send that in at kind podcast.com or email me. Holly at kind podcast.com, and I will feature some of the stories on the show. If you like the show, hit, subscribe, hit, follow, give us a rating. It helps me a lot. It was great to spend time with you. Speak soon.

Music  44:54

Hey, dream on and let your heart unfold.