We bought ballistic underwear | Olia Hercules

Olia Hercules  00:00

And then, literally, my PayPal was just blowing up just every second. I feel really emotional thinking about it now.

Holly Newson  00:12

Oh hey, welcome to kind I am so glad you're here. I'm Holly, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times people were kind to them, and how that changed things for the better. This episode, you'll hear how neighbors really can become good friends. By the way, you belong here. Right, let's drop you straight in. My guest today is Ukrainian chef, author and activist, Olia Hercules, welcome.

Olia Hercules  00:43

Hi, Holly. Thank you so much for having me.

Holly Newson  00:45

Thanks for joining me. To start with, I wanted to ask, What do you think it means to be kind? What does that mean to you?

Olia Hercules  00:55

Kindness is equivalent to empathy to me. So just just feeling what the other person is feeling, even if you think that they're mean, if that makes sense, and perhaps even just thinking, like, oh, on the small scale, like, have they had a bad day? Just kind of like digging inside of yourself and finding that really kind of human empathy. My dad has always, since I was very little, one of his kind of motives in life, and something that really, really stuck in my head, he always said, Olia, you have to be kind to people. You know? It was just, it was just one of those lessons, breathe and just think, what's going on. Let's, let's try and find that kind of empathy and kindness inside and try and sort it out.

Holly Newson  01:42

Yeah, it's like trying to, is the effort to understand people, isn't it?

Olia Hercules  01:47

Yeah, so it's not actually that easy. I think, to be, you know, constantly, completely kind.

Holly Newson  01:52

I wonder, do you know why you're why it was something that was so important to your dad?

Olia Hercules  02:00

I think he, himself is a really open and kind person. He's always been there for the community in our small town of kakhovka. He's always been encouraging of people's careers. Like, I don't know he's, you know he's, he was born in 1958 but I feel like, and he probably doesn't know the definition of feminism, but he's actually quite a big feminist, like, he's always been encouraging in whatever I was doing, and he was always encouraging with all of the women that worked for him. The latest business that he had was a farming equipment factory, and, like, whoever's gone through it have gone to do their own, like, wonderful things. So, you know, I think, yeah, that's, that's, that's kind of why he always wanted to encourage people and to to help them out, and in many, many ways. So yeah, throughout my life, he's been a really great example my whole family, but my dad, I think, in particular.

Holly Newson  03:00

So when guests come on the show, I ask them to have a think about three times people have done something kind for them. And this was the first thing Olia wanted to share.

Olia Hercules  03:10

Okay, so the biggest one was three years ago when the full scale invasion of in Ukraine happened, when Russia basically invaded Ukraine. My brother was in Kyiv. He was actually setting up an eco bike delivery business. He's never been to the army, never held kind of a weapon in his in his life. And then, you know, there was this immense threat coming and and he could have left the city, you know, he could have gone to Western Ukraine to, like a relative safety because he's got three kids as well, but, but he didn't. He decided to stay, and he decided to join the Territorial Army, which, if you if I think about what, what my brother is like, the type of person that he is, literally would not hurt fly. And this kind of step that he made alongside so many more civilians, you know, he had bakers, actors, directors, musicians, you name it. You know, people from all walks of life joining to defend Kiev. And then he sends me a photo of himself, you know, with what I'm like, What is this rifle thing and a little weird bag and where, and where's your gear, you know, where's your helmet, where's your stuff? And he's like, Well, that goes to the proper army, the Territorial Army. That's all we have. And it's not a rifle, it's a Kalashnikov, and it's not a little bag, it's a bandolier. And that just completely kind of blew my mind in a way of, you know, I just panicked. I just had, like, this visceral, kind of really strong reaction to that. And I said, Okay, I'm gonna, like, get all of my savings, you know, I'm gonna go and find out how to find this vest and boots and helmet or whatever you need. And he's like, No, Olia, I can't, like, I've got 105 people in my regimen. I can't just take the stuff and be like, protected, and everyone else is running around. And their trainers. He's like, if you if there is a possibility to help us, we need to be all of us need to be helped. So I was like, right? And I just, I remember, I just went outside into my garden here, and I just recorded a video, and I've put it on my Instagram that by that point, I had about 70,000 maybe followers, or something like that. Maybe it really resonated with people, or maybe people were just incredibly kind, so they just started pinging them. You know, there was no time to set up, like a just giving or anything like that. I was just like, This is my PayPal. If you can stand a couple of quid, we would, I would be eternally grateful. And then, literally, my PayPal was just blowing up just every second. I feel really emotional thinking about it now. People were sending money from Hong Kong, from America, from all over UK, from, you know, Eastern European countries, just all over the world. Just, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, and we collected enough money to send vests, helmets, sleeping bags, boots and even ballistic underwear, which I didn't even know existed to my brother, and we got it to him and his regiment just in time before the battle for Kiev. So they were they were fight. My brother was fighting like, there was literally like missiles falling, and the ballistic underwear actually works it like protects your arteries from shrapnel. So all of those people that donated to me and donated to my brother and his regiment really literally saved lives. So if they, if anybody's listening, you know, I just want to thank them so much. That was for me. It was just, I just couldn't imagine how much solidarity and kindness was going to come from a situation like that.

Holly Newson  06:44

Yeah, it's an incredible impact to have for what I assume for a lot of people, obviously, they felt it very strongly. But for them, that was a moment of, yeah, I'll give 20 pounds, you know, thinking I want to do something, I don't know if it's going to make any difference. And then for it to make such a difference is so incredible,

Olia Hercules  07:08

like, massive and, you know, and that was just the first kind of instance of that. And then people kept donating and kept spreading information and kept learning about Ukraine. You know, there's just so many people were kind and interested and empathetic, that it really still blows my mind. I'm still pinching myself at the support that we got.

Holly Newson  07:30

What did you think the response might be when when you put the call out to ask for help?

Olia Hercules  07:36

To be completely honest with you, I think at that point I was in such a, an utter shock. I didn't really have time to think of have any expectations. It was such a as I remember it. It was just such a fast, kind of, too much tumultuous kind of, still. It felt like a storm of emotions and the storm of action in the way. So from the moment that my brother, you know, asked me for help. To me kind of like I remember we just went to a local kind of cafe with my husband, just to kind of sit down, get out of the house and regroup a little bit. And I just remember him asking me for help. Me running home and just doing it. So to be honest with you, I don't even remember having any expectations. I just thought, if somebody donates 1000 pounds, will, you know, the process would have started and but I just didn't have time to think it was very unprecedented. You know, that dreaded word, it was really unprecedented. And I just didn't know how to feel, to be honest with you, just complete shock and trauma and a bit of a fog, but also this immense energy, which I don't know, maybe has kind of transferred through the video into people, and they saw the urgency of it, and then that kind of created that response as well, I don't know.

Holly Newson  08:54

And when you were watching those donations come in, how did that feel?

Olia Hercules  09:01

I just felt loved. I, you know, I felt loved. I felt seen. I felt like, finally, you know, Ukraine was seen when I, when I came to this country 22 years ago, I don't know why, but, well, I do know why. There are a few reasons. But Ukraine was such a blind spot for people on the map. Even though it's the biggest country in Europe. It's bigger than France, guys, but like, people would just be like, Oh, you're Ukrainian, so you're Russian. No, we have our own country, our own culture and language, you know. And I was just patiently explaining, so when I started my career, you know, when I wrote my first cookbook 10 years ago, that was kind of like, it just became a bit of a mission for me, because that's when the war started as well, in 2015 1415, that was a bit of a mission for me to kind of explain to people that that we are our own people, and we are wonderful people, and we've got so much going on for us and about us, you know. And with food. And stories and history and literature and music and you name it. And I feel like, yeah, I just, I was just like, Okay, we're seen and and it felt very special, actually, yeah.

Holly Newson  10:13

And you it was such a, it is still such a, an awful time to be going through, how did the fact that people helped impact how you kind of moved through the world, or saw the world, given those atrocities happen, but all these people stepped up.

Olia Hercules  10:36

So we have this incredible band, a music band a music band in Ukraine, one of the biggest Ukrainian bands, I think, called daha braha, which I did, the word, I think maybe it's from old Slavonic, I'm not sure, but da habra means give and take. It's, I felt like it was a real, like, massive exchange, like, of energy, like, on a on a global scale, if that makes sense, it's like I told them something was happening. They helped me. That gave me energy to do more, you know, to stop my activism, to start doing fundraisers or whatever. And there was just this constant kind of flow of of empathy that that I can see it as this kind of like mad energetic circle or something, and I just feel like one feeds into another. And, yeah, so at that point, I just thought, gosh, there's we really need to help each other. We need to a little bit get out of whatever the modern world. You know, I just feel like people started becoming a little bit isolated. You know, there is obviously globalization and everything, but in terms of social issues, in terms of wars and other countries or whatever, you know, we just kind of like, Oh, I've got so much to deal in my life. I just can't, you know, and you just kind of like, retreat into your own shell. And I feel that was a bit of a breaking point, maybe. And people with just kind of the consciousness, kind of like the bigger scale of empathy was kind of finally released. And I feel like it's still going

Holly Newson  12:09

so it sounds like it's almost like the that empathy, that kindness, that has fueled you to be able to put more of that into the world. So it's like it's cyclical.

Olia Hercules  12:22

Absolutely, yeah, it's cyclical, and it's and it has kind of like a wave effect. And, you know, people sometimes ask me, so they're like, How can I help? I'm like, Well, you don't actually have to do anything global, you know, anything huge. I'm like, actually start with yourself. It really, actually take care of yourself. Then take care of your family, then if you can find a little bit of energy, do something for your community. We really need to start working actually, from from kind of the roots upwards. You know, you don't have to save the world on a global scale. Well, they, like you, the Ukrainians have been trying to do recently, because we don't have any other choice. We're just like, we need to help our country, but people can do it from from a very kind of, like, small scale, just breaking that isolation and that numbness. I really loved what Elif Shafak said recently. I saw it in the video. She said, It's not good against evil. At the moment, she's like, there are not actually that many truly evil, you know, psychopathic, no empathy, kind of whatsoever, chemically, people like that. In the world, it's more the numbness against the good. So it's this kind of like, you don't have to be an awful person to just kind of like shut yourself off and just say, No, it's all me and I don't care. And, you know, just completely shutting off that empathy kind of center in your in your brain. So, yeah, so it's this kind of like kindness against numbness at the moment, and I'm really hoping and encouraging people to get out of that state.

Holly Newson  14:02

Yeah, because there can be a kind of a paralysation, like you say, a shutting down, a kind of shutting off when, because it feels overwhelming the bad in the world. But ultimately, the more community and collective there is, the more good there is

Olia Hercules  14:25

absolutely, I mean, I live in London, so our community here in forest gate is so mixed and and actually, it's been, it's been quite a blessing, like where there's quite a lot of Ukrainians, actually, historically, I Didn't know that when we moved into this area. And, you know, a big Bengali an Indian community as well, and Pakistani community. So it's been, it's been wonderful living here. And, yeah, I really encourage people not to just, you know, not find out who your neighbors are. Try and, you know, try and be involved and talk. Talk and find out about other cultures or, you know, and you can start small. You don't have to pick, as I say, you have to go huge.

Mia  15:16

Person I was working with got me an Uber because it was late.

Holly Newson  15:19

Oh, nice. What were you doing that was in the evening, we were just doing a show, and so they just, they just did it without you asking. They were just like, yeah, get in the Uber,

Mia  15:28

Yeah.

Holly Newson  15:29

What did it mean to you that they'd done that without sort of, you know, you having to, like, ask or think about how you were gonna get home.

Mia  15:36

Honestly, it just felt like they cared. I

Holly Newson  15:43

What was your name?

Mia  15:44

Mia,

Holly Newson  15:44

Mia. Lovely to meet you. Thanks, Mia. You

Holly Newson  16:02

can you tell me about a moment of kindness from your from your community, from your neighbors?

Olia Hercules  16:08

Yeah. So we moved here in 2018 I think, and and actually, sadly, I haven't had such an amazing experience of neighbor neighbors, kind of, in my life, I've been living in the in London for over 17 years, I think. And, you know, I always lived in rented accommodation. And I don't know, there was always some kind of beef, or, like, I don't know, I didn't feel it. There was some kind of, like, friction. Always, I tried. I really tried. I like brought cakes and did this, and it just didn't work. I don't know. It didn't gel until we came here, and then we came here and, and just one day I had, we had our son, Wilfred, two months before the first lockdown. So you know, when lockdown started, he was only two months old. And and then I have my neighbor, Pavan, just come and ring the door, and then, you know, she retreats from the from the door, because we're not supposed to be so close. And I look on the floor, and there's this big, kind of, like, you know, loads of containers. And I'm like, oh, Pav, hello. You know, she's like, hello. I just made this. I just made some of my food. And there's this amazing Bengali chicken roast. And I hope you like it. I hope you guys like spicy food. I'm like, Oh my God, we love spicy food. And you know, so great, gratefully received. And actually, you know, being as young parent or a parent of a of a newborn, you're just constantly hungry and breastfeeding and whatever. So we were just completely blown away. It was just such a beautiful thing, and so kind. And I started, you know, I was baking sourdough afterwards, and I dropped like, bits of, you know, sourdough bread to her, and then other neighbors, from up, from across the road, Fatima, they're all amazing bakers. And you know, still, when it was at yesterday, she came over and it was her mom's birthday, and she's a pastry chef now, which is amazing. She's doing so well fatty and she just brought us this big box of cakes, you know, gone in two seconds. All My Children like, oh, it's the fattest cakes, yes. So, you know, it's just so, so nice these exchanges of and especially food. I think it's such a, such a nice way to connect to someone I'd never tried, for example, parvins, you know, chicken, chicken, Bengali roast. I never tried anything like that in a restaurant. And she actually, after the pandemic, she invited me over to her kitchen, and she showed me how to make it. And one of her and that recipe is in my fourth cookbook called home food. So it's, again, it just gives you this kind of, like Buzz and an energy and and then the feeling of unity and kind of just being united in this, you know, kind of energy of kindness and empathy is just so lovely. Yeah.

Holly Newson  18:57

Why do you think it was that, that chicken curry and all that chicken roast in particular that stuck with you. What was it about that moment that made that act of kindness so needed,

Olia Hercules  19:10

because we were so scared, I think, you know, it was, it was the beginning of a pandemic and and literally, you know, just coming out of giving birth and everything. It was just, it was, it was, like, extra scary. I look back at those at that time and I'm like, Oh, actually, it wasn't so bad compared to now. But at that point, you know, it was so unknown, so again, unprecedented, unprecedented and, and I thought, When am I going to see my family in Ukraine again? Are we going to get ill? We didn't know at that point if children would be massively affected. You know, it was a really scary and unstable kind of time and so, so parvent is turning up like that all of a sudden. I don't know. It just felt she just. Just gave me some hope as well. And and when we were supposed to be staying apart, I just really appreciated that she didn't, that she that, that she just came over to my door, and even that she had to walk a few steps back, that there was her there in that in the tub of this delicious chicken, you know, like, and she just put effort and love into it, and you could really feel it in the food, because it's just so delicious. She's an incredible cook, so, yeah, and it was just so interesting because that I'd never tried this kind of food, homemade, you know, it's always been delicious, also, but in restaurants, but never homemade. And I just, yeah, it really blew me. Blew me away.

Holly Newson  20:42

Yeah, is sharing food a very important thing for you in terms of how you communicate your kindness?

Olia Hercules  20:49

Oh, absolutely. Um, yeah. I know it's an overused kind of phrase, but I think that's my love language. You know, this is definitely how I would want to make someone feel good. I think that's why I became a chef, to be honest with you, if food has been so prevalent in my kind of massive extended family, my mom was one of six children, so everybody had their own children, and then they had their own children. So we're like a really big extended family. We don't even have the word for extended. We just say family. I have a massive family and and we, when we'd get together, we would go, you know, cook and sit down at a long table, or a couple of tables put together under a tree in my grandma's house, and we would talk and my our parents, grandparents, whatever, would tell stories, sometimes really sad stories, and everybody would start crying, and sometimes they'd be laughing. And, you know, be like, a really interesting thing to witness as a child, because sometimes I'd be sitting there and be like, Wow, they're crying. What? What is going on. This is so confusing. And then as you get older, you start tuning in, and because all of this kind of like story exchange was happening while we were eating it, I don't know. So there's some pathways in my brain that have just kind of like merged, and maybe that's why I'm a cook and a storyteller. Now it was just like a special buzz I realized, for my family, was probably therapy, because, you know, there's no the kind of tradition of or like, the practice of going to a therapist is only emerging now, since the big invasion happened in Ukraine, it's a new thing. Back then, I think people just sat down, you know, as their big clan or at home, or as a small gathering in the kitchen, and you'd exchange stories and kind of help each other out by being open and and doing all of this. I don't want to, obviously, like romanticize it too much. It's not like everyone was just, like, super mentally healthy all the time, but it helped, I think, and it made me want to feel that. So when I started cooking in my 20s, I just thought, oh my gosh, I just have to do this for I have to turn my hobby into my profession, and then I'll be happy. I just need to feed these people. And to this day, even though I don't have a restaurant, when I do my supper clubs, or, you know, sometimes I do a residency in a restaurant or something like that. And when I come out at the end of the night and there's 50 or 100 people that I have fed, it's like a drug, uh, buzz or something. It's just like this feeling of, I can't even explain it, it's huge. It's like this incredible feeling.

Holly Newson  23:41

Is that something that then kind of carries you through for a few days? Is it a buzz that kind of stays there?

Olia Hercules  23:47

Yeah, well, certainly. I mean, the next day, you're probably completely drained, then you have to stare at a blank wall for a bit to just kind of like recuperate, truth be told. But after a couple of days, you forget about the tiredness, and you're like, I want to do it again. So, yeah, it's like, it's, it is like a drug like, you know, a little bit of a Down, down day, because it's also emotionally and physically demanding, but the the upside of it is definitely worth it. And I, and I'm definitely chasing that feeling constantly, you know, an amazing thing happened. I was in New York in March, and I did a pop up, a fundraising pop up there with Aggies counters, kind of like a Hungarian, Jewish kind of place, and and I cooked Ukrainian food. There were some Hungarian dishes there. And then this, randomly, this Chinese guy comes in. He wasn't even, he didn't even know about me or the pop up. He was just passing by, and he was hungry, and he was like, oh, what's going on here? And we're like, oh, well, this is happening. And, you know, I'm making this and this and this. And it was like, Okay, I'm just gonna stay. And he bought a ticket, and he sat down. And then at the end, I came up to everyone. To ask how they're doing. And I made this broth. There was a it was a pork it was a pork broth. It was quite simple and but it was kind of seasoned with fermented, kind of like gherkin brine, and it's a very Ukrainian thing, and maybe there was pearl barley in there, whatever. And I came up to him, and he said, You know what? This reminded so much of the broth that my dad made. And I unfortunately, I can't remember which part of China he was from, but I was just so amazed. I was like, really? I was like, Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's a stereotype. I just thought everything is always quite spicy. He was like, No, this is like, exact it just tastes so much like what my dad made me. And those kind of connections were different from different cultures. You just, you just have this some kind of a common denominator. And, and it, you know, it fires up something in somebody else's brain. And, and again, there's this connection between cultures that happens. And that's beautiful. I, you know, I live for those moments, really.

Holly Newson  25:59

That's such a gorgeous story. It makes me think a lot about how there are bits of my Jewish heritage and the cooking that's there where I've shared meals with people who have Eastern European heritage, and sometimes they'll make something and I'll be like, Oh, this tastes like what my grandma made. Like, really brings you to life. Like I'm still on the search for someone who can make an apple strudel like my great aunt? Because I just feel like that would be like the most visceral thing

Olia Hercules  26:27

for me. She never left a recipe. She

Holly Newson  26:30

didn't leave a recipe. She showed me how to make it once before she died, and I can remember most of it, but there was, there was like a cinnamon sugar bread crumb mix that she would make herself, and that part she never told me how to make. So, like this, like the seasoning part of it I don't have, so the rest of it, I can just about get it. But like, she was just, she was just perfect, and it had never been written down, had been passed to her by her mum, and it just come down the generations. So yeah, I'll have to, I have to give it another go and see how well I can replicate it.

Olia Hercules  27:05

Yeah, I think Try, try using her recipe. And then maybe, yeah, but maybe reading some others is not actually very useful. Just keep trying. Just just do it a few times because it takes, it takes time to kind of get that recipe right. I hope you, I hope you get the I

Tanya  27:28

A about a year ago, I had some some ovarian cancer removed from my body, and I was very worried that, you know, how I would be after the operation, you know, like, what would be left in my abdomen. And as I was being brought back after the operation, the surgeon whispered in my ear exactly what she had done. And so when I finally did come to in the hospital bed, I wasn't thinking what's going on with my body. I knew exactly, and it was very kind of her to do that, you know, to put my mind at rest. Overall, the kindness that I've received over going through cancer has been incredible, and it's been entirely the NHS as well. I

Holly Newson  28:23

How are you doing now?

Tanya  28:24

I'm doing good. I'm cancer free.

Holly Newson  28:25

Congratulations,

Tanya  28:27

yeah, thank you.

Holly Newson  28:36

Can you tell me another kind of thing that someone did for you or your family, yeah,

Olia Hercules  28:41

so a historical one, and the one and one that kept on coming up in in our kind of like conversations for years to come. So I was three years old at the time of 40, almost 41 now. So 39 years ago, we went to actually see the strange story, but we went to see my dad's Ukrainian Armenian family in Azerbaijan. So we drove from the south of Ukraine through Crimea and then through a policy in Georgia to Azerbaijan. So it was like a three day journey in this tiny little ladder. It was really hot. It was a really difficult journey, actually, like, for a three year old, I think I really suffered through it. So I don't remember the story, but my, my parents always, always remember it when we mentioned sakar 12, which is the the Georgia, basically in Caucasus. It's an amazing country where we feel like they are our cousins in a way, you know, like in that culturally, we're very similar, very hospitable, very kind of, like, just feeders, you know, just very welcoming. And you know that that kind of vibe. But they really blew us away, or blew my parents away when we were passing through the Belize, which is the the capital. Of this man. We got lost. My parents got lost, and they just hailed the car, or maybe he was, like, driving parallel. And you know how you talk to someone out of the window? And my dad said, you know, could you please help us? We're lost. Can you we don't know how to get out of the city or whatever. And he just said, you know, don't worry, just follow me. And he literally, it's not like he went, you know, all around the corner and, like, showed us and explained to my dad, he literally took us out of the city from, from what I understand, like, half an hour. He was just driving ahead of us for half an hour, and just like, showing us out of the window, like, oh, this way, this way. And I just, and I'm, you know, I'm pretty sure it's not just because he had nothing to do. I think Georgians, you know, Georgian people are just so incredible. It's a really, really special country, and really special people. You know, people from Caucasus are really hospitable and, and that story is still told. And, you know, we don't remember the man's name. I'm sure he introduced himself, but we but that, you know, small but big act of kindness still lives on whenever we, you know, talk about Georgia, or whatever it's like, Oh, do you remember the guy? So it's really interesting and and it stuck with me as well. You know, I'd never forgotten, even though I don't actually remember

Holly Newson  31:19

it. Do you know how your parents thanked him after the half an hour drive?

Olia Hercules  31:24

I'm sure that was just like, you know, nodding his head and smiling, you know, ear to ear, and just like he does with big eye, you know, he's got, actually, quite small eyes. But when he's really excited, his eyes go huge, and he's just, so I think they would, they just, you know, genuinely just just said a huge, huge, thank you, madloba in Georgia,

Holly Newson  31:45

why do you think that this became one of those stories that's told over and over again in a family?

Olia Hercules  31:50

So I said that we're, we're similar in a way, Georgians and Ukrainians, and maybe in Ukraine, that kind of thing also would happen, but I don't know. I think Ukrainians are friendly. And maybe if that situation in Ukraine for my dad, you know, if that happened in Ukraine, they would like, stop and come out and, like, explain whatever. But this kind of, like, extra step of, actually, like, Don't worry, like, just don't worry about it. Like, a completely selfless, like, here's half an hour of my time. I'm going to take you through. And actually, I can imagine my dad doing the same now, you know, as I'm sure that he remembers, and I'm sure he would do something like that. Now, in Ukraine, you know, if somebody a foreigner, you know, even if it's just from a neighboring company or country or whatever, if they would come through, and I'm sure he that he would take them in the car.

Holly Newson  32:42

It sounds like it fits with the values of your family and the things that you care about.

Olia Hercules  32:46

Oh, absolutely, you know. And I try my best as well, and I'm and sometimes I really berate myself, so, you know, because I'm quite, like, I don't know what it is about me. Like, I really go deep into my thoughts sometimes, and sometimes I'm a little bit mindless, or, like, really, so much inside my head. And then if I if I notice that, like, Oh, I haven't noticed that. I don't know there's, like, somebody older or pregnant woman on the chew, but I didn't get up to give them a seat. It really distresses me. And I really then berate myself, and I'm like, Oh my God. Like, just look around a little bit more, get out of your head, which is really hard, because I'm constantly, like, just these crazy thoughts constantly going through my head. So I'm trying, actually to just be a little bit more observant and a little bit more in the moment as well, and try to get myself out of my whatever, the horrific torrent of thoughts that I'm having and and, yeah, just to look around a little bit more. I think it's really that's what this story taught me as well, just to be helpful to people and, and sometimes also to go an extra mile and, and it makes you also feel kind of good, as I say, It's like a It's a cyclical thing. I think, yeah,

Holly Newson  34:01

definitely. And we learn lots about your family in your book, strong roots, which tells the story of your family and the story of Ukraine. And in the preface to the book you write, if you'll excuse me reading it, being Ukrainian is about moving beyond generational trauma. It's about courage and stoicism, and it's about our innate love of freedom. It is also about a culture of kindness, tolerance and connection in opposition to the violence, bigotry and emotional dissonance we have often faced. And I thought that was I wanted to read that because I thought it felt resonant and poignant with what we've talked about with your family, and the kindness that stuck with you and your family. So I wondered, What are you looking forward to the audience experiencing about your book and about the story?

Olia Hercules  34:51

I'm really hoping that people will take one if nothing else wants. Thing away from it. So when my family, so especially my grandparents, my great parents, actually, every generation of my family, none of them, have escaped war, dispossession, deportation, there's been so many horrific things done to them. And I think something like, you know, such strong feelings of hatred can actually be quite useful in the short term to as kind of, like a survival maybe, like in that kind of like first initial bit. But then, you know, my grandparents never became callous. You know, their soul has never hardened. Like, my grandma was a formidable woman. It's not like she was like, Oh, this little, you know, babusa, that's like, just kind and sitting in the corner. No, she had this, you know, strong back, and she was actually quite harsh sometimes in her manner. Or, you know, she had six children, and she was like, had a, you know, a homestead or, you know, cows and whatever she had to do in her life to support her family. So it's not like that. She was a strong, kind of, like and headstrong woman, and she's been through so much, you know, being deported at the age of 11 with her, with her mom and all of her siblings, put into a cattle train, sent to northern Russia, thrown out into forest and winter and left to die. She survives all of that. Then she survives the Second World War. Then she survives 70 years of Soviet occupation and everything that comes with that. Was not a fun time. And at the end of her life, you know, I she was just extremely kind, extremely empathetic, strong but very empathetic. She nearly, she nearly adopted a seventh child in the 70s. I think they brought some Cuban orphans to the Soviet Union. I'm, I'm still trying to find out what happened. But she nearly adopted a Cuban child, and it was only my because, you know, she was just like, oh my god, I just want to help. I just want to to make someone's life better, this child's life better. And my, uh, my older uncle, who was already an adult, was like, Mom, you can't like it. You just can't like you. You it's hard to look after the six that that you have. So you can't do it, but she's she's never become hardened, if that makes sense. She always had empathy, critical thinking, and she could look at things in various ways. And I'd never had that feeling of, oh, we hate someone. Or, you know what I mean, like, it's just never been like that in my family, which is not easy, especially. And it's not been easy for my parents, having lost their home, having, you know, my hometown being occupied, constantly being bombarded, and, you know, and missiles falling, and my dad is in Ukraine now. And I had to be honest, I don't also blame people who are in Ukraine now, and they're just full of hatred. I'm like, that's I get it 100% I get it. But I just hope that with time, people can just kind of not cultivate that feeling and not become hardened and then not to become hard towards someone else. And it doesn't always just go, you know, towards the enemy that has done that to you. You actually transfer those things towards your kids, sometimes, a lot of the time, all of these like really deep, negative, horrific things, you take it out on someone else. And I just hope that the example of you know, of what my family may have gone through, but they've nurtured kindness and love in us. I hope that that's that's inspiring to people, or makes people think, at least

Holly Newson  38:46

it's so it's so beautifully written, and the story is so beautifully told. I mean, what you said there about, you know, there's empathy and kindness, but that is alongside strength and being strong. I feel like that's something really important, because I I think that I don't know. I think sometimes people think kindness can only be soft, but actually you can be strong, and you can be vocal and you can, you know, being kind does not mean, you know, not not having that strength or not having that backbone, or whatever that might be. So I think that's a really perfect way of describing that duality.

Olia Hercules  39:27

Yeah, I think it's a great point. Yeah. I love what you said. It's true. Yeah. We as it, yeah, as when I said about Lucy, yeah, we kind of associate like, Oh, if you're kind you're, you know, maybe you're a little bit of a doormat. But I think that's a misconception, as you say, like it's actually, it actually takes a lot of strength to be kind and a lot of work on oneself and a lot of thinking. And, you know, it's much easier to be hateful, much easier to just go like, No, you know, Shut, shut, whoever out you. I'm talking on a small scale as well, like, you know, somebody's mean to you, and you're just like, No, okay, I'm not going to speak to them all. Of course, easier said than done, but it's a for me. I know that it's a lifelong kind of work on myself as well, because, you know, one of my kids as well, so Wilfred is he has Fragile X syndrome and is autistic, and he doesn't have that much language. He has a little bit, but we can't have, like, a proper conversation. So actually, and he doesn't understand all of these bigger things that are happening in my life, you know, he doesn't know I'm going through trauma. He doesn't know I'm, you know, I've been watching, like a Apocalypse happening on the phone, you know. And, and he's very sensitive in that kind of energetic sense, you know, he feels if I'm really, you know, in some kind of a mood, or I'm really angry, or I'm really, I'm feeling these really strong, negative feelings, he feels it. And I think he taught me a lot in the past three years. So for him, and obviously, it's not always possible, and I'm human, and you know, sometimes I will be upset or I will be feeling whatever, but I'm trying my best to to breathe, to think, to process, to work on my mental health, to do all of these things so he can absorb just calmness as much as possible from me. Otherwise, he it's really extremely hard for him to process what's happening around him. You know, he doesn't have the advantage of fully understanding or even communicating how he's feeling. And again, it's it's as we were talking. It's the cyclical exchange of energy, and I can really feel it with him and the way that we communicate as well. You know, it's not all about language. It's amazing, like enough, and I'm learning every day. I'm learning with him that that there's ways of communicating in other ways, and actually breathing is a huge thing. I really, highly recommend it to people and doing it with their kids. When I put him to bed, I'm just like, Okay, let's just calm down, close our eyes and breathe, you know, just do this thing. And then we I start breathing really deeply and even sometimes pretending to snow. And then he's out in two minutes. Highly recommended. So, yeah, it's this kind of like exchange, but it doesn't have to be someone who is neurodiverse or a child or whatever I can. I think we can benefit from being calm around adults or friends or family or whatever, and just kind of like keeping that in your mind. Of course, we're human, but as much as possible we can, we can try,

Holly Newson  42:34

yeah, and I think as well, it's sometimes, it's finding the right people around you to be able to express that anger or that frustration or that worry or anxiety people who are open to hearing it and holding the space for you so that you can process it, so that when you need to have those calm moments, you haven't tried to, like, bottle it somewhere.

Olia Hercules  42:59

No, yeah, absolutely, I may have made made myself sound like I'm this, like Zen Olia, which I'm not. I'm an extremely anxious person. I have always been my whole life, exacerbated by 1000 times by the war. But maybe that's when I actually paused and thought, Aha, okay, this is going to be a catalyst for me to actually start taking steps and rewiring my brain, or keeping my brain plastic and just Yeah, trying to live in a in a quite slightly different reality, where, where I can keep anxiety at bay as much as possible.

Holly Newson  43:37

So on that note, I wondered, what's the kindest thing that you've ever done for yourself,

Olia Hercules  43:42

or the kindest thing that I've done for myself. I So and, yeah, so it links, actually, to what I just said before. So since the the big invasion happened three years ago, maybe for the first year, I was just in complete kind of, you know, turmoil and fog, a fog of trauma, really. But after a year, I really realized that if I don't start taking time off for myself and start doing something really, just for myself, not for my children, not for my family, not for Ukraine, not for anyone, just taking a step back and doing something for myself, then I simply won't survive. I was very I had a couple of really serious breakdowns, you know, and I just thought, oh, I will not survive this. And then who am I going to help? Is I'm going to be useless if I'm depressed or or have, like, an episode or whatever. So I just thought, right, you're going to really find a couple of things that make you really happy, and you're going to find time and be extremely strict about it and just do it. So I started doing. Art lessons with it, with my Ukrainian teacher, Valia, who lives in Kharkiv. So we get, every single week, we get on on zoom in evening, and we speak Ukrainian, and she's, you know, in Kharkiv by the Russian border, which is just mad to think about, but she's just so strong and amazing. She's only 21 incredible artist. And we just sit there and and we do art together, and she and we, then we talk and we and we draw, or we do whatever she teaches me. Then I go away. And I also make sure that I find time in the evenings where I sit down and I do something for an hour. Another thing was another outlet for me is embroidery, because there's such a huge kind of tradition of it in Ukraine. I just thought, okay, and I've been doing it already since the pandemic, to be honest, but it really amplified, and I just thought, Okay, I'm just gonna pick up a needle and thread and before going to bed, instead of scrolling through the phone, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna do this for myself, for my brain, because apparently eye and hand coordination, apart from creating something beautiful, is something really calming. This is advice that we've been given for Wilfred before he goes to bed. They say make him do little things, like some little games where I and hands go together. And that's what I'm doing so and I've been mostly very good at it, at finding those little pockets of time and space where I can just do something creative, creative for myself, and let my brain breathe and during half terms as well. It's my rule to put the phone in the drawer. I just have a week off completely. I don't look at the news, I don't look at work. I just, it's a, you know, it's a completely no go kind of situation. I'm just there completely with Wilfred and with Sasha, my oldest son, and with Joe, my husband, and, you know, so it's and after that, I really can feel my, my, my kind of whole being is, is rewired. And I'm like, Ah, okay, now I can go back to life and whatever I'm doing, writing, doing fundraisers, or whatever it is that I need to do. But, yeah, taking those breaks is extremely important. I highly recommend it to everyone. Amazing.

Holly Newson  47:16

Thank you so much for chatting to me. I massively appreciate it. And your book strong roots is You mean, you're a gorgeous writer, and it's such a wonderful story to be able to to experience through reading it. So I hope everyone goes and goes and reads and listens to that.

Olia Hercules  47:34

Thank you so much, Holly. Thank you for producing such an amazing podcast. I think it's very much needed now in the world. So thank you.

Music  47:41

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here....

Holly Newson  47:50

thank you so much for listening. Your presence here and your support means so much to me. After this episode, I really want to be a better cook so I can make things for my neighbors community, whether that's down the road or online, can do so much good. Let me know how you cultivate community in your life. This episode is dedicated to all those people who have connected with us through food. Maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life or someone else who might love it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you, so send that in at kind podcast.com, or email me Holly at kind podcast.com and I will feature some of the stories on the show. If you like the show, follow us on your preferred podcast app, give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts and rate the show on Spotify, where you can also leave comments on each episode. It was great to spend time with you. Speak soon,

Music  48:47

dream on and let your heart unfold.