A rabbi walked me home | Kenny Ethan Jones

Kenny Ethan Jones  00:00

I said, I've had a fantastic time. This was better than my night out.

Holly Newson  00:09

Oh, hey, welcome to kind I am so glad you're here. I'm Holly, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times people were kind to them and how that changed things for the better. This episode, you'll hear how being called a brat was actually the kindest thing to happen, by the way, I believe in you, right? Let's drop you straight in.

Holly Newson  00:32

My guest today is author, activist and entrepreneur, Kenny Ethan Jones, welcome.

Kenny Ethan Jones  00:38

Good to be here. It's nice to see you.

Holly Newson  00:40

Lovely to see you. So to start off with, I wanted to ask, What do you think it means to be kind? What does that mean to you?

Kenny Ethan Jones  00:47

Oh, big question. Good question. I've been talking to my therapist about this recently, actually, funny enough, like, literally last week, yeah, because I guess my definition of kindness is shifting. I think when I grew up, I seen kindness equates, equated to niceness. And I think over time, I'm realizing that some people try to take the piss and that you can't always greet people and meet people there. And so actually, I guess, like, how I see kindness now is more about being generous and being considerate rather than being nice, so to speak. Yeah. But before, when I was younger, it was definitely like, do the right thing, regardless of how anybody else treated you. And I think I'm learning to understand it needs to be mutually met. And so, yeah, it's kind of shifted to that now.

Holly Newson  00:47

And what's an everyday kind act like, you know, dropping you a message to check in, or holding a door that means a lot to you is that, is that something that you're particularly like, I love it when people do that?

Holly Newson  01:28

I completely agree that I feel like sometimes it is conflated with niceness, or, I don't know, like, almost being a bit of a doormat. And it's like, I don't think it is that. I don't I don't think that, like, if that someone's trying to, you know, take the piss, then the kind thing to do for everyone in this situation is to put the boundary there. Like, so, yeah, completely agree.

Kenny Ethan Jones  01:59

Oh, that's a big one. I think the ones that stand out to me is when people are gender affirming, but in a way that's really unique, and they don't really realize. So for instance, my younger sister, I launched my book, and I had a party right at home, and she turned around and she was, like, giving a little speech say how proud of me she was. And in this speech, she turns around and she was like, You're my favorite brother, and you didn't even start off as one. And I found that so funny. And it was like, you know, she wasn't really even thinking about and what it would mean to me, but things like that, when people are really affirmative of my transition and respectful and don't really it's just so natural to them. Yeah, I think that those things are really They? They stand out to me because it's like they're very far and few in between, but they stick once, once you receive it.

Holly Newson  02:48

So when a guest comes on the show, I ask them to have a think about three times people have done something kind for them, and this was the first thing that Kenny wanted to share.

Kenny Ethan Jones  02:57

So I recently had my eggs harvested for my sister, and it was a wonderful journey, but very trying. And I was really worried in this procedure that it was going to trigger my gender dysphoria. And you know, I'm so far removed from that version of myself, but obviously, when you go into like invasive medical procedures, you know, that's always a possibility. And so I remember going to my GP and discussing it and being like, okay, like, you know, what's the next steps? And they're like, are they? I feel like, in that process, they kind of drip information to you until you get further along into it. So anyways, it came to the point where, you know, you're sat you're sat down with a doctor, and you're talking about your medical plan, you're talking about the medications that you're going to take, you know, how many days it's going to last, like all your questions. And this doctor, I turned around and I said to her, like, have you had any trans patients in the past? Because I was just, you know, just wondering if there's any kind of, like, different protocols that they put in place. So she says, yeah, like, essentially, she specializes within fertility for trans men specifically. I was like, Oh, that's really wonderful. So like, I've got the best doctor for me. This is fantastic. Anyways, without having a discussion about like my gender dysphoria or my experience of it, she automatically referred that I take this medication called letrozoid. And letrozoid is essentially a medication that during the process of harvesting and collecting your eggs, it keeps your estrogen levels low. And so because she had read over my file, and seeing that I suffered with gender dysphoria, and it was because of, like, estrogen, she automatically said that this is the medication that I should be taking. And for the fact that I had never met her, I had never had a conversation with her about my experience with gender dysphoria, and she automatically thought like, this is going to be she's gone through it. She's actively taken, like, a moment to go through it and my records and be like, this is something that he might struggle with, and make a decision that was going to benefit me like, I think that, as well as the fact that in my life and my transition, you don't always come across good people in the medical field, and it can be really difficult. And so when you meet somebody that's actively taking a step to help you and support you, it.

Kenny Ethan Jones  05:00

Just felt really special. And I remember I documented the whole thing on Tiktok, and in the video that I talked about, I got really upset, even now I feel teary, because it just you feel so seen and so taken care of, and that's how everyone should feel in the medical space. And so, yeah, it just really stood out to me because she didn't, she didn't need to think of that, but she did. So it was really wonderful,

Holly Newson  05:20

Yeah. And so in that moment when you realize that you know that she's already done the reading, she's taken the time to, you know, review your notes rather than, which is not necessarily a criticism, but in a lot of medical settings, you have to give your whole medical history at the start every single consultation. So what? What were you feeling in that moment? You're like, Oh, wow. She's, she's done, like, a lot of work?

Kenny Ethan Jones  05:42

I guess, at first, well, predominant the feeling walking into the room is I was scared, yeah, because I didn't know what was going to happen. I, you know, I didn't know how it was going to this process was going to make me feel. And so I'm already, like, very anxious walking into this, into this space. And so when a doctor just kind of sits there and she's telling you, you know, I've thought about you, I've thought about what the best medical case going to be, and we're having conversations about because you can do internal scans or external scans, and she's like, is there one that you would prefer, because we can do the external one if the internal ones are going to be triggering. So she's already really thinking ahead. And I just sat there and I just thought, wow. Like she This is an active ally, because she's actively, like, gone and done the research on how. Because the difference is, I feel like, with Doctor specifically, like they they look at you, maybe not always, but my perception is they look at you from a perspective of, like, what body parts do you have? And how can we help? She looked at me and said, Here's it. Here is, here is his body parts. But also emotionally, what might he experience during this procedure. And so I think that that, you know, took it to another layer of depth, like she actually had to consider me in that. And so yeah, I just felt very grateful. I felt seeing I trusted her instantly to be honest, like she was my favorite person. And yeah, throughout the process, she just shined even brighter and how she supported, supported me. And, yeah, I just, I just felt really taken care of, and in a procedure that you don't you feel anxious, you're not sure what's going to happen. You want that kind of experience. So, yeah, I've just, I was so, so grateful to them,

Holly Newson  07:13

Yeah, and it's amazing because you were doing that for your sister, harvesting your eggs, and that's, I mean, obviously you saw that, saw you do that, and thought that's an incredibly kind thing to do, like that, you instantly were like, I have mine. Yeah, you know, like, so for it to be kind of reciprocated in the process is really gorgeous thing to hear,

Kenny Ethan Jones  07:35

yeah, you're so right. I didn't even think of it like that, but you're so right. I guess it's like, yeah, I I offered a kindness, and that kindness was extended back to me, I guess. Yeah. So no, you're totally right. Didn't even think about that.

Holly Newson  07:46

That's amazing. Did you tell the doctor, like, how much it meant that that she'd done that?

Kenny Ethan Jones  07:52

Yeah, we had a conversation afterwards where it was kind of like recapping where we were getting to the point where the collection was going to happen. So they're doing all the scans and everything can get into the point where they're saying, okay, you know, you're gonna start taking the treatment, medication and the procedures can. You're gonna have the procedure tomorrow. And I remember just being sat there and just looking at her and like, just staring at her and just thinking, I'm so grateful that I got this doctor specifically. And I did say to her at the end, I said, I'm I'm really grateful that, like, it's you, you know. And she was just like, No. She said, I've learned so much from you, just the conversations that we've had. And then, yeah, I just, you know, my the activist in me, was like, Well, if you need to use my results as anything to do with medical studies, like, let me know. And yeah, we left, we left things on a good note, but I do think maybe I should follow up with an email, because she really did. She really did stand out to me, yeah, yeah. But I did. I did. I always think it's important when somebody offers kindness that you make it clear and express how you feel, because I think that they're more inclined to do it to somebody else,

Holly Newson  08:54

yeah, yeah, because they understand that that act meant something to someone. I think it's very easy to go through parts of your life, and you're like, I did something, hopefully it was okay for that person. I don't know. I don't, I don't really know you need feedback. Yeah, exactly. So Did someone say, like, that meant a lot to me. Then you're like, Oh, great. And also, then you're like, oh, and it was worth it. Whatever I did was, you know,

Kenny Ethan Jones  09:14

yeah, yeah, a little bit of time that she put in to, you know, do the research, and, you know, it just goes, Yeah, I think it should. I should tell you. Should tell people that it's good, yeah, yeah.

Holly Newson  09:36

So the question is, what's the time that someone did something kind for you? Can be big, small. Ages ago, recent, whatever comes to mind,

Speaker 2  09:44

just be nice, someone that's given you a bit of time and spoke to you, yeah, yeah, quite recently as well, yeah.

Holly Newson  09:52

What sort of things did you talk about?

Speaker 2  09:54

What I can't really remember, but it was, it was nice,

Holly Newson  09:59

yeah? Just when people come and have a chat, that means a lot.

Speaker 2  10:02

Of course it does, just like you have!

Holly Newson  10:06

how is your day going?

Speaker 2  10:08

Very good. Thank you.

Holly Newson  10:22

Can you tell me another moment of kindness that had an impact on you?

Kenny Ethan Jones  10:25

Okay, this one, I was very young. I was probably, let's say, like 18, and I'd gone out with my friends on a night out, as you do 18 years old. And I don't know how this happened, but anyways, I left the club and I had lost my wallet and my phone was dead. That's like, the worst possible situation to be another night out, you know what I mean? So my friends have all gone home. I'm in the middle of nowhere, kind of know where I am. It's just like, right? I'm basically stranded. The only way that I knew how to get home was to walk home. And to be honest, it probably would have been like an hour and a half walk. So all my head is thinking about is, this is a joke. I hate it here. I don't want to do this, so I just said, Well, I don't really have an option. I'm just gonna have to start walking, right? So anyways, I start walking. And I was, I think I was visibly upset at this point, because I just felt a bit lost. My Night Out wasn't the greatest. Anyways, this man came up to me, and he turned around and he looked at me, and he said, Are you okay? And I said, like, something along the lines of, I've had better days. And he turns around, he said, like, what's happened? And I said, Oh, my phone's dead, and I've lost my wallet. I don't really know where I am. I don't know how to get home. And he was like, he was from the area, so he was like, Oh, I know there's a bus stop, like, not too far away. How about I walk you there? He was a Jewish man, and I'd never come across and had a, like, an intimate conversation with someone who was Jewish. And so we had so much conversation about, like, religion and what's the meaning of life. And just like, I just, I just felt so, like, indulged into a whole different perspective that I'd never really experienced. And he was just, yeah, he was just, I'm a very curious person. I would ask question after question, and bless him, he's just responding and responding. So yeah, he was really kind. And anyways, we get down there, and we get down to the bus stop, and the bus stop, the bus was on diversion, so the bus wasn't even coming. And I remember getting to the bus stop and just thinking, Oh my God, we've already walked for half an hour at this point, 20 minutes, whatever it was, just thinking, I'm just gonna have to walk the whole way home. Anyways, he turned around, and he said to me, he said, I'll like, you know, like, follow me. And I said, What? He's like, gonna follow me, basically, about five minutes away from his home. He turned around, he got to his house, and he ordered me a cab home, and he was just like, like, I hope you get home safe. I hope like, you've learned something from me. And I said, I've had a fantastic time. This was better than my night out. I love this conversation. And yeah, it was just, you know, he didn't have to do that. He didn't have to ask me if I was okay. He could have kept on walking. He didn't have to walk me to the bus stop. But equally, when we got to the bus stop, he didn't have to decide that he was going to order me a cab home. And so there were so many moments in that, in that experience with him, where he could have turned around and said, My kindness is going to stop here. But it didn't. He continued. And I would hope that, I guess, he saw something in me that felt like I deserved his kindness, and that's why he gave it to me. And, yeah, not this big, big, I guess, like example of kindness, so to speak. But it's just like this. It's usually the small things, yeah, that stick with you, and it's massive that stayed with you over 10 years. I know I still think about him like he's just yeah, I hope I bumped into him. Remember each other, but he was this really, really wonderful man, very insightful. I think he might have been a rabbi. He just kind of blew my mind with the way that he spoke about things. And I was kind of lost with religion at that point in time in my life as well, and I was experiencing a lot of gender dysphoria and finding myself, I was just in a really difficult place in life. And I think sometimes with religion, I don't know there's something in it that really speaks to like this deep knowing within you that things are true. So I guess like him saying something along the lines of, you know you have to trust in yourself that you'll find your way. And you sit there and you go, you don't know what that is, but you kind of feel it inside of you. You get what he's trying to say. And so it was just things that I think I needed to have that conversation with him. Yeah, not even needed to get home. I obviously needed to get home, but I think I was meant to meet him, to have that conversation that allowed me to feel better about life, actually

Holly Newson  14:24

did anything change for you after the conversation in terms of, like, yeah, your your your spiritual or religious path? Like, do you think it was a trigger for anything?

Kenny Ethan Jones  14:35

Yeah, I think it was very enlightening in the fact that I so I went to an all girls school, Catholic all girls school, and I was basically kicked out of that school. And the notion in that school about me being transgender was that I was basically possessed by the devil, right? And so really didn't have a good relationship with religion. But, you know, wanted to believe in something bigger than myself, and so ultimately, I didn't know what that was. Going to look like. And then I had this conversation with this man, and I don't know, it just made me believe that, and I told him I was trans as well. I don't know why I told him so much about me, but obviously felt trust, you know, I trusted him, and he didn't judge me in that at all. And so it just made me think, okay, there are people that are religious in, you know, other realms of life, and don't necessarily see me as being trans is a bad thing, and just see me as God's child. And so I don't know it just kind of it made me think that there, I wasn't really interested at that time because I was really young, but I was always kind of convinced at that point that there might be a religion out there outside of Christianity that actually might suit me, and ever since then, I've like, potted around in different religions, and I feel like I'm not ready to commit to one, but I find all of them very interesting in different perspectives and the way of their like, teachings and things like that, I find very interesting. And, you know, there's a commonality between all of them that I really love. And so, yeah, I think he just kind of like opened the door for me to have more of a positive relationship with religion, which is incredible. I know it's wild to think that a singular conversation with and he probably didn't even know the impact that that conversation was going to have on me. And so yeah, like, I mean, I even went to church last Sunday. So here we are. So it's obviously still going, but, yeah, it's really, again, really grateful for him and his existence and the time that he took to educate me, because he could have just told me to bug off,

Holly Newson  16:31

but to go back to the start of that encounter, like, it's late at night. You've had a shit night, like, what? What do you feel like when someone first approaches you, because that's you never quite know why someone's approaching you, right?

Kenny Ethan Jones  16:47

I think I don't know. I think it was a very predominant Jewish area, and I don't know. I guess he was just out and about. I didn't really, I don't think I was thinking about why he was approaching me, I think it was quite I looked visibly sad, right? And I think if I had seen somebody, and when I have seen somebody visibly sad, I'd probably ask the same question, yeah, because I would, I would hate it if I didn't ask that person that question, and something bad happens to them. And so maybe it's to do with the way that he sees life. And because there's some people that will see someone be sad. Unfortunately, in London, I think specifically, you see a lot someone could be crying on a street corner. You'll see 100 people walk past that person. And there's obviously something in him that decided, actually, I'm just gonna, just gonna double check, you know? So he didn't, I didn't feel any like malice in his approach. He was very gentle, big guy, though, remember, he must have, like, I'm five foot five must been like, six foot. So he felt like a giant to me. But I don't know something about his presence felt, I guess, calming, yeah, and I guess I had already picked up on his energy. I know that sounds really weird, but I guess, like, sometimes someone approaches you and you get a bit of a Oh yeah. Do you know what I mean? And he approached me, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's how it felt. And then our conversation was, oh, it just got better and better. I should get his number or something, but yeah,

Holly Newson  18:02

in that situation, you don't think to do you're just like, this is

Kenny Ethan Jones  18:02

also I was 18, yeah, I was thinking about getting home,

Holly Newson  18:07

yeah, like this night took a turn! A good turn, but you know.

Kenny Ethan Jones  18:18

Very grateful to have met him. He was wonderful. And yeah, he sticks in my heart and mind,

Holly Newson  18:23

yeah. And I feel like you said that you would do that for other people, and maybe you would have done that for other people anyway, but to have that at 18, like when you're still growing to know that a stranger will do that for someone, then implants that idea in your head, if it wasn't there already, that as a stranger, you can do that for someone.

Kenny Ethan Jones  18:43

Yeah, I do that now so frequently. And there's few pubs in my area, there's always someone a bit too drunk, you know, I mean, and I'd be like, are you okay to get home? Sometimes they aren't, you know, I'll offer an Uber and but I guess it all stems from kind of what you're saying when someone has a kindness like that to you, you kind of realize what's possible, and also how much it meant to you, and therefore the kind of impact it can have on another human being, yeah. So I just feel like he that made me feel more inclined to do that with other people, and, you know, I have been doing that ever since. So, yeah, he planted the seed.

Holly Newson  19:18

Yeah. It spreads.

Kenny Ethan Jones  19:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3  19:29

Something happened the other day. I got off the bus, and I have, like, a little wallet with my cards, and because women's pockets don't have very good pockets, it came it came out, and I was just walking along, and this guy literally ran after me. So it was about 50 meters from the bus stop, so not he was shouting at me. I had my headphones in, I didn't hear him, and he like, tapped after me, and it was all sway and and he was like, your card. So I was like, oh, okay, literally, all of my car credit card, and I was just about to go on holiday with my mum, so. Would have completely ruined my day. That was very, yeah, I was really, really grateful for that.

Holly Newson  20:13

And can you tell me another moment of kindness?

Kenny Ethan Jones  20:16

This is, this is going to go back to our conversation that we had earlier about the definition of kindness.

Holly Newson  20:21

I'm jumping in here to say that this is a story about someone who we're not going to name as it might not be fair on her, so she'll just be she throughout.

Kenny Ethan Jones  20:30

So I was having a conversation with my therapist about my childhood and about an argument specifically,

Holly Newson  20:37

and Kenny decided he wanted to chat now with that person he'd had the childhood argument with,

Kenny Ethan Jones  20:44

because I wanted her opinion of how she felt about the situation.

Holly Newson  20:57

So he goes to this person and he says, hey,

Kenny Ethan Jones  20:58

you know, I've spoken to my therapist about this. I wanted your perspective, because I don't want it to be just walked in how I felt about the situation, like, how did you feel about the situation? And she just straight up told me you were being a brat. Does? Does just no sugar coated it. Just woof. I just sat there, like, Do you know what? I don't think you're actually wrong, but I say this the same, why did I say that? That's the kindness is because I'm in therapy trying to work through some things, and essentially, having your honest opinion about some of my behaviors is good for my self growth. And so she knew in that moment that telling me the truth of how she felt was a benefit to me and was a kindness, because she could have just done what I guess some people might do, which is lie or sugar coat and be like, Oh no, it wasn't that bad, or dismiss it or push it. She was like, No, you're a brat. You got on my nerves. I said, You know what? I'm really sorry about that. Well, you apologize at the time, and I'm over it, but thank you for the apology again. But I think that the reason I see that as a kindness is because for me, one of the things that are really important to me in my life is growth. And so her telling me the truth and just giving it to me how it is and being honest allowed me to then go back to my therapist and have that conversation about growth. Had she not done that, then I would think that that behavior was okay. Do you see what I mean? And so again, it's not traditionally how we would see kindness, because it's not equated to niceness, so to speak. But she did that. She told me that response, knowing that that was going to help what I wanted to achieve in my life. And so therefore I see that as kindness.

Holly Newson  22:19

Yeah, that the truth, I think, is underestimated as kindness, like obviously, people need to take into account how to necessarily deliver that truth if someone's not expecting it, not brutal, yeah, not brutally honest. I really do feel like it because, like you say, you can't grow if you don't know how a behavior is coming across or affecting someone. Are you open to sharing what it was that you'd done?

Kenny Ethan Jones  22:50

in less detail. Essentially, it's kind of sad, if I'm being honest, it was about a situation where, essentially, I tried to take my own life, and I was really suffering with gender dysphoria, and I wasn't thinking about how my choices and how I was feeling was affecting everybody else, and I'd never really seen it from that perspective. So she wasn't saying she was obviously in, you know, really kind and acknowledging the fact that, like, she understood how I felt and how bad my dysphoria wasn't one of those things. But she was like, there were moments that you were being a brat, like you were using the fact that, you know, you were having a shit time to be shit to others, and that's not okay, yeah, and that's why I said, I said, I do not. I fully get it, because you're right, like, at the end of the day, you know, just because I'm feeling all of these sad things doesn't mean I need to push off that harm onto other people. And so she just turned around. She was like, you've just been a bit of a brat. Like, I understand that what you dealing with is really hard, but you can't go off and treat others like that. You need to be kinder to other people like you need to be considerate, because you're getting upset and willing to take your own life and you know, or just talking about it. And then other people are getting upset, and they're trying to think how they can take care for you, and also they're changing their whole lives around you now to fit you. And so, yeah, it was quite a difficult conversation, and it was essentially, when I went back to therapy. It was about understanding that, how can you minimize harm to others, like, if you're in a bad headspace, you don't want to push that harm onto other people. And how can you do that like, you got to kind of, like, self implode, and not allow it to always spread onto others? And how do you do that in a way that, because I just don't want to take how much space from everybody else, like, I think it's always good to have people that you can be honest with and have conversations with and say, Listen, I'm really struggling. But ultimately, I'd never wanted to get to a point where, like somebody around me is so concerned to my mental health that they are changing their life to fit my needs. Does that make sense?

Holly Newson  24:48

It does make sense. It does make sense. I think it's like it's because I've experienced it from different angles as well, so, but it's that making sure that person still knows they can ask you for help, that you are there you do know. Want them to keep it inside like you. You want them to tell you, because if, if they don't tell you, then you can't help and that's even more terrifying if you're watching someone go through that. So it's that balance of like, like you said, Isn't it's not an excuse to be shit to other people. So So I completely understand what you mean, but it is that when you said self implode, it's like, yeah, but also reach out. Because, yeah, I think, yeah, my mum was, my mum was wanted to take her own life when I was a teenager and and even though it really affected me that she came to me and she told me that I would rather a million times over, that she that she shared that and that she she didn't do it. Yeah, then she felt like it would worry me too much to share it with me. But yeah, it's I do completely agree that, like, I feel like the truth is a kindness, and also like it's to have that conversation, that openness is like, so it's so necessary. Things change,

Kenny Ethan Jones  26:10

lots has changed. I think at that point as well, it was I had got to the point where I kind of needed to understand how to emotionally regulate myself. I think that's what it was as well. It was, I was needed to learn certain life skills to kind of like cope. I mean, you get to a point in life where, let's be honest, you lose your innocence, and things just become a lot harder, and you realize what life can be. And that's kind of the point that I was getting to do. I mean, I was having a lot of people bully me for being trans. I was seeing really dark parts of the world and people, and I was just really suffering with that, and rather than trying to understand and accept that, I was just going off and taking it out sometimes, you know, unfortunately, you know closest people to in your life, because that's how it works sometimes. And, yeah, yeah, I felt it was a really honest conversation. I'm grateful, because I think we all have an argument once in a while that we say, I wish I didn't say that. I mean, I wish I didn't do that. Yeah, I'm really grateful that she was so supportive. I'm really grateful that she was actually really honest as well, you know. I mean, so, yeah, those are conversations that are, you know, extremely difficult to have, and sometimes you like, your heart clenches. I was a bit of a shit person, like, not nice, but that's, that's how you grow, that's how you go. I mean, I'm, I've never tried to proclaim to be someone who's perfect. None of us are, and I'm never going to be, but every day I wake up saying, I want to be a better version than who I was yesterday.

Holly Newson  27:29

Yeah. And so I wondered, kind of on that note, what's the kindest thing you've ever done for yourself?

Kenny Ethan Jones  27:38

Good question. Transitioned. Transitioned, specifically top surgery, I'd say. But now testosterone as well, too. Well, it's both of them. But that was a gift of life to myself, because I don't think I would be here without those, those two things. And so yeah, and it was a lot of advocating for myself in the medical field, proving to doctors I am indeed trans. My mom belling up doctors at nine o'clock in the morning saying, When is my son gonna get his appointment? You know what? I mean, it was a, it was a it was a big fight to get here, to get to a point where I'm confident in who I am and comfortable in who I am. And yeah, I think I, as much as I've had so much support, and that's honestly been a massive part of, like, how I'm here today, because without that, I wouldn't but I also think I need to pay respect to myself every time I got knocked down, being like, nope, yeah, we're getting back up. We go again, you know, I mean, and just not giving up. Because there were many times in my life where I really did want to. There are much, many times where I thought in my life it would be easier not to be trans, and I said, Well, I'm just No, like, I'm going to be who I am, and this is who I am. And, yeah, regardless of the fight that I have to put up to become this version of me, I'm going to do it, yeah. And, you know, and you know, there'd be many times where I'd go home and mum would be on the sofa, and I'd be crying, and today was really hard, and she'd be like, Fuck them, yeah, they had dickheads. Ignored them, I mean. And then I'd go to bed, I'd wake up and I said, Okay, well, we go again. And, you know, that was a constant, constant choosing of me, yeah, yeah, for many years, to get to a point now where the same things are probably said to me, and I just go, Oh, that's nice. And I just don't even really think by it, yeah. So growth, growth as well. Lots of growth.

Holly Newson  29:30

Yeah. You've chosen yourself over and over, and that's an incredible thing, because I don't think that many people in the world are that honest with themselves, or remember that they can choose to be who they really are.

Kenny Ethan Jones  29:47

I think even, even if you take out the context of transitioning and you just think about, like going after what you want in life, you know, there's going to be many situations where life is you're consistently coming up against a brick wall. Yeah, and it's. Easier to quit or to settle for a lesser version of what you want, and actually, you know respecting yourself and choosing yourself is going this is hard. I'm getting really annoyed. I'm tired. I feel beaten down. I hate this, but I'm not giving up. Yeah, and going to bed, I see, do not I see sleep as a restart. So, I mean, so when I go to bed, I'm like, okay, cool, but restart. We wake up. We go again, yeah, I mean, and I don't know why that's helped me, like, cope, weirdly enough, I sit down, I think to myself, what would it be like if we didn't sleep, we'd just be constant, like, That's terrifying. So I really respect sleep from that perspective. But yeah, I think I wake up every day and I'm like, Okay, we go again, and some days are hard, and some days are really wonderful, and life just flows, yeah? And I really appreciate those days, yeah. The hard days are like, Oh God, get me into bed. And that's just life, yeah, that's just you just, you know, I've just really, like, respected that yin and yang about life and even moving with my transition. Same thing. Sometimes I have days where I'm, you know, I feel really confident. I love who I am. I love my transness. I'm so proud of who I am. And some days I'm, I want to shy away from the world, because I wake up to, you know, 100 DMs from people being nasty, you know, and saying, Ah, you know, you're a woman, you're this, you're that, whatever nonsense they want to come up with today, and that's a hard day sometimes, you know, I mean, and I think one of the skills that really helped me is kind of like learning to emotionally detach from things that harm you, and lots of therapy to get to this point. Yes, but yeah, I think Yeah. You just, you just, I think accepting life, you know, just radical acceptance and just trying to show up for you and don't give up. Honestly, like, why would you do that? Why would you do that? You have, you have so much to look forward to me, and you're just gonna, you're just gonna, just gonna stop that from happening because you've had a bad day. No, absolutely get back up. So if you needed encouragement, get back up. But yeah, I just yeah, I've gone on a little bit of a tangent there. Yeah. Okay, good,

Holly Newson  32:06

yeah, gorgeous. Well, Kenny, thank you so much for coming and chatting and sharing your stories. It means so much to me, and it was so gorgeous to see you.

Kenny Ethan Jones  32:15

Thank you for having me.

Holly Newson  32:17

Thanks.

Music  32:17

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here till it goes.

Holly Newson  32:27

Thank you so much for listening. Your presence here and your support means so much to me. This episode is dedicated to all those people who were there for us even when we weren't being the greatest. Maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life, or someone else who might love it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you. So send that in at kind podcast.com or email me Holly at kind podcast.com and I will feature some of the stories on the show. If you like the show, follow us on your preferred podcast app, give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts and rate the show on Spotify, where you can also leave comments on each episode. It was great to spend time with you speak soon!

Music  33:26

Hey dream on and let your heart unfold.