A local legend taught me to improvise | Giles Paley-Phillips

Giles Paley-Phillips  00:00

That sounds too generous, like that's too much.

Holly Newson  00:07

Oh, hey, welcome to kind I am so glad you're here. I'm Holly Newson, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times people were kind to them and how that changed things. In this episode, you'll hear how two youth workers impacted a whole bunch of lives. By the way, you'll figure things out, right? Let's drop you straight in.

Holly Newson  00:33

My guest today is author producer and podcast host Giles Paley-Phillips, welcome to the podcast.

Giles Paley-Phillips  00:39

Hi, Holly. Lovely to see you.

Holly Newson  00:40

Thanks so much for joining. So to kick off with, I wanted to ask, What do you think it means to be kind? What does that mean to you?

Giles Paley-Phillips  00:49

Oh, it's such a vast question, in some ways, isn't it, what does it mean to be kind? I mean, I guess for me, I guess kindness has always been about,

Giles Paley-Phillips  00:59

Well, several things, I guess it's like allowing other people to be heard and seen, you know, the

Giles Paley-Phillips  01:06

usual kind of tropes of empathy and compassion. But I think those two things, like being heard and seen is like, so vital, and I think particularly at the moment, like when we we live in a world where, obviously and this is something that I talk about a lot with lots of different people we have can't be more connected than we are at the moment, but at the same time so disconnected. You know, we live in a world where, like, we can literally message anybody, any second of the day, anybody as well, like literally anybody, and yet we seem to be so fragmented socially and even in our, like, own personal lives, even with like, friends and family, like we're not as maybe connected as we once were. So I think, like, kindness is more vital than it I'm going off on a tangent here. By the way, kindness is more vital than it's ever needed to be. But I do think it is just having that making some space and time to to see and hear people. Yeah, and I think that's kind of something that we are we've kind of lost along the way somewhere.

Holly Newson  02:14

Why do you think we're just less connected to friends and family?

Giles Paley-Phillips  02:18

I think we just often neglect those, those relationships sometimes and not obviously, not everybody, and that I'm generalizing, but I think it is easy to to let those things drip away, because we're just living in, like, a world where we're working so much, you know, like, whatever kind of work you do, you're kind of always on. My wife's a teacher. She's, like, constantly working, like, even weekends and, like, it's the half term at the moment when we're recording, and she's like, working loads of, you know, so it's like, eking out some time with one another is really difficult, because we're just, there's so much pressure to be doing stuff all the time,

Holly Newson  02:56

Yeah. And so what everyday kind act has a big impact on you. You know, like someone just dropping you a message just to check in, or someone holding a door, or someone complimenting your outfit. What sort of thing means the most to you in that sense?

Giles Paley-Phillips  03:10

Yeah, totally, all those things. I mean, there's a little cafe I go to in the town of in Seaford called backers, and I go there regularly. It's where I go and do writing. It's just where I go and hang out. I love a cup of coffee, and that's obviously for me, like, a really lovely kind of amount of time to, like, lift my dopamine levels, because I get connection, I get coffee, I get to write. So got all these things, but just sitting in there, and I've met so many amazing people just having random conversations with people, or, you know, overhearing conversation. It's great, from a writer's perspective, to be able to, like, hear, like, different perspectives on life and all that kind of stuff, but actually just having conversations with people that I wouldn't normally necessarily have a conversation with, you know, whatever you know, just random acts of kindness, like those moments. They're the things that really sort of can be quite long lasting. Sometimes, you know, like you say, just giving someone some support and encouragement in something they're doing, that's the thing. With kindness, it doesn't have to be like a massive act. You don't have to do something life changing, necessarily something but actually something small can be life changing.

Holly Newson  04:14

Yeah, completely. So when guests come on the show, I ask them to have a think about three times people have done something kind for them, and this was the first thing Giles wanted to share.

Giles Paley-Phillips  04:25

Well, like, I've been really lucky that I've had several moments of, like, real acts of compassion. I think one that always sticks in my mind is when I was, must have been around seven or eight years old, maybe nine years. I was eight, nine, and I was really into transformers. See if anyone from the 80s is listening transformers when it was good. Obviously, they've made films recently which are not good, but transformers was a big part of my life, like I used to get the. The figures, and I used to watch the cartoon. Anyway, they bought a sticker book out, like a panini sticker book, yeah, and there was a news agents around the corner from our house, and there was, like, a, I didn't need that many stickers to complete the book. And obviously, like, it's a really, you know, as a child, this is all you encompassing, like the idea of finishing your Panini sticker book, and me and a friend of mine, Mark, he he was round, and we were just hanging out and praying. And he went up the shop, and he said, I might try and see if I can get some stickers. And he came back, and I was, Oh, amazing, you've got some stickers and they earn any money. Blah, blah. And he's like, Oh no, I just took them. Oh, okay. And I was like, you know, obviously thinking this is not, this isn't quite right. Normally, have to pay for stuff, you know, I had like, Yeah, but then we just, the two of us, kind of encouraged each other to go and, you know, take some more stickers from the shop. Eventually, we got caught, because we weren't very, we weren't very intelligent thieves, you know, we'd left a like, like a Hansen and Gretel paper trail of like stickers that we've been like, ripping up and putting in the book, you know, like we were, we weren't very savvy thieves, and we got caught quite, quite swiftly, you know, and instantly felt a huge amount of regret and sorrow for doing something so horrible. And my dad went ballistic. He was like, absolutely mortified, you know, like, because we were, you know, we live in quite a small community, so it's like, kind of like, you could tarnish the name, our name, and blah, blah, and he was local councilor and stuff. So I think he was just like, he was kind of thinking about himself in that instance a little bit, and not actually kind of digging into the reasons why I had done something like that. And yeah, he just went absolutely nuts. And, you know, I got properly bollocks. Excuse my language. But then a few days later, I was hanging out my Nan. He's gonna stay at my nan at weekends and stuff. So my mom passed away at quite a young age, so we obviously with my dad in the week, but like, weekends and stuff, we'd often go and stay with my Nan, so that, you know, he would give a bit of time for himself. And I remember she just took me into she was cooking. She was like, proper, traditional Nan. She always baking and cooking dinners and, like, doing stuff in the kitchen. And, you know, just very house proud grandmother. And I remember she took me into the kitchen. She was doing some baking and stuff, and she just, like, took me aside, she put her arm around me, and she didn't like, she was making no more judgment on what, what happened, or anything like that. She just, she just wanted to ask me, Why, like, why did you do it? Like, you know, and I was, I don't know, like, it was an act of stupidity. It was a moment of madness, whatever you want to call it, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I just remember just thinking, even at the time, thinking, Oh, this is, like, a much better approach to, like, get me to, like, open up and, you know, figure out why. Like, you know, I was either I was obviously acting out or feeling like I wasn't being seen at home and stuff. Like, I say, like, being newly into a family with one parent. And, you know, later my, you know, my dad had alcohol problems and stuff like that, so he wasn't around much. There was all those kind of reasons. There was obviously lots of stuff going on. And it was just a moment of, like, I say, a moment of acting out and wanting to, sort of, I don't know, maybe it was a quite, not quite for help, that seems a bit extreme, but just like a moment where I wanted to sort of express myself and be seen. And she gave me that moment to be seen and heard. And as I go back to what I was saying earlier, about how what kindness means to me being seen and heard, she gave me that moment of being seen and heard. And, yeah, I always, you know, I always said to myself when, as I got to a point when I had my own children, like, like, if those kind of moments ever happened, I had the same level of kind of empathy and compassion. And just listen to why, you know, why that thing happened. You know, there was no judgment. There was no from her. It was just, I just, she just wanted to get to the to the meat and potatoes of it, so we could, like, see if there was a way of helping me in some way. And I just always stood with, stayed with me. And I just remember always thinking that was, like a kind of a beautiful moment between the two of us. And was very, was all. Was always very grateful for that, and that she took a different, you know, different route. And I just thought, you know, that was like kind of good parenting, yeah.

Holly Newson  09:40

So was that, would you say that was in character for your nan? Is was that what she was liking? It was that what you would have expected of her?

Giles Paley-Phillips  09:47

Well, yeah, totally. She was a very, very caring, empathetic, compassionate lady, and did do things like that quite regularly. So it was in character, but I think it's not until later, you know, you sort of think. God, that was really impactful when she did that. It's obviously something that stayed with me. It's quite an irrelevant little moment in my life, like, you know, I mean, obviously I never, I never, ever stole again, and I've never, you know, never done anything you know, anywhere near criminal since, and maybe that was because of her impact on me with that, with that moment? Yeah.

Holly Newson  10:22

Do you remember how you felt in that moment when she took you aside? Because when you're a kid, you sort of don't really know what the adults gonna say. You're like, oh, hello. What's going on?

Giles Paley-Phillips  10:31

Yeah? Yeah. Well, I thought, Okay, here's coming another roasting, right? Here's another, like, bollocking but, but that just her putting her arm around me and like, it's okay, it's okay. Like, it's like, it's like, it's not okay that you did that, but it's okay that you can talk about it and express yourself and say why. You know, what are the reasons behind it? So I felt loved. I felt like, seen, like, say, seen and heard.

Holly Newson  10:54

And how do you feel about that moment now when you think about it,

Giles Paley-Phillips  10:59

oh, it makes me quite emotional. Yeah? Like, yeah, it, it definitely hits me in the fields, you know, like it's, and I say, like, it's the sort of thing now having children, my boys are quite a lot older now, but like, I like to think that over the years, when they've had moments where it might not necessarily be that they've been naughty, but like just being able to convey that level of like compassion and giving them that time and space to express themselves, wherever it might be. And I feel like we, you know, we've both done that as parents like say, it has had that, that legacy

Holly Newson  11:37

As you grew up, did you ever get to say to her, Oh, by the way, that moment meant a lot to me?

Giles Paley-Phillips  11:44

No, no, I didn't, you know, obviously you can have lots of regrets and stuff, but yeah,

Holly Newson  11:51

yeah, it shouldn't be a regret. I was just

Giles Paley-Phillips  11:53

No, no, but yeah,

Giles Paley-Phillips  11:54

it's one of those things where you say, I wish I had sort of mentioned how much of an impact that had on me. Hopefully she saw the fact that I, you know, my behavior was improved and, and, you know, I never did anything like that again, was enough to sort of, I guess, I showed how much of an impact had on me by by, you know, being being a better person and being a good person and not not doing that kind of stuff again, was enough to sort of maybe show that that that did have an impact on me.

Holly Newson  12:20

Maybe, yeah, do you have a sense of what might have happened differently if she hadn't?

Giles Paley-Phillips  12:26

I think that. I think probably the way it was handled, that situation was handled by my dad, would have made me feel insecure and and difficult. And maybe I'm not saying necessarily done, done anything like that again, because of, because of the, the visceral kind of way he acted and behaved towards me, but I definitely think it would have had more of an impact on me with regards to self esteem and like would it have necessarily addressed the reasons why I was feeling that well, was at that time, and I didn't feel loved until my nan had spoken to me. So I guess that's that's the big thing, isn't it?

Holly Newson  13:09

Yeah, she sounds lovely.

Giles Paley-Phillips  13:11

She was.

Holly Newson  13:18

Can you tell me about a time someone did something kind for you?

Speaker 1  13:22

I always like it when people hold open doors. I know that's really, like plain but when people hold open a door for someone, it's kind of like they're so cute, you know? And when it's for me, and when I also hold open doors,

Holly Newson  13:35

so that's like an everyday thing that just means a lot to you.

Speaker 1  13:37

Yeah, I think so. I think it's really, I guess you appreciate it quite a bit, especially if it's someone you don't know. It's kind of like, oh, well, thank you.

Holly Newson  14:00

Can you tell me about another time that someone did something kind for you?

Giles Paley-Phillips  14:04

Yeah, so I've been playing guitar since about the age of 16. I started playing guitar, and I was sort of self taught. I was living at the time of my dad and my my other his mother, who's my paternal grandmother, who we were talking about earlier was my maternal grandmother, and we lived like my dad had fallen on, like, financial problems, and we were basically living in a one bedroom flat, and I had to share a room with him, and it was just a horrible situation. Anyway, I'm like, I'm at the age of, like, 1617, or 17 at the time, and I used to do volunteer at a local youth club and stuff. So and the people that ran it, they had a spare room. They just had an extension done on the house, and they had a spare room. So they let me, they let me move in, and at the time, like I was struggling academically, like I was not doing very well. Hadn't done very well in my GCSEs and I was going on to college, but I started learning the guitar, and I was really passionate about like this. And I was like, I want to join a band and do all this advert stuff. But they always sort of like, they're kind of their whole kind of thing around, like, education and music and everything had been like academic, like, you need to go and get lessons and, like, learn grades and blah, blah, blah. And they were like, for for a gift, for a birthday gift, of like, well, we've bought you 10 guitar lessons with the local guitar guru who lives, funny enough, actually lives around the corner for me now. And you can start to learn grades. And then you know, this pursuit that you've this new passion, you've got, you can turn it into a if you want to turn it into a career, at least, you'll have all the right qualifications kind of thing, which is, you know, obviously it's very kind of them, but obviously, god, look, I've just failed with my Jesus. This isn't necessarily, like, why I started playing the guitar. I don't necessarily want to learn all great like boring grades. I just want to learn, like Nirvana songs and like being a rock band. Anyway, I went and had these lessons. I wasn't keen on, going to be honest, I was just like, This is gonna be so boring, like learning scales and like learning root notes, and I don't know, like pentatonics, whatever. Clearly still learn these things. So I went in, I went in. I was very nervous. This guy, Graham Tucker. His name is a very, like, sort of bit of legend around town. He in the 60s, he'd, like, been in a band with Jimmy Page, and, like, he'd done all these cool things. And now, yeah, he him and his wife did a lot of music together locally and nationally, actually. And I was like, Oh, quite so I was quite intimidated to start with. It's like, this old school rocker Graham. Anyway, I sat down, and he was like, he was kind of like, why are you here? Like, What? What? What do you want to get out of this kind of thing? And I was like, Well, I've been told that, like, one of the reasons why these have been, like, bought for me these lessons is so that I can learn all these, like, scales and grades and stuff. Because he's like, would you Is that what you want to do, though, is that what you want to get out of being a guitarist? And I was like, Well, I guess so, because that's what I felt like I should say, yeah. And he was like, okay, okay, okay, okay, so why don't you just play a little bit, let's just play a few things that, you know, he go, and he got a keyboard out, like a really long scale keyboard, and he was like, I'll just like, you know, well, I'll do some, like, bass lines and stuff, and then you can, like, anyway, so we were playing. We jammed for about, I don't know, like, 1015, minutes. And he said, Stop, stop, stop. And I was like, Oh no. Like, he's gonna say, you're really, you're really bad, like, you're gonna have to, like, we're gonna have to start from the beginning. And he was like, I stopped. And he said, Right, okay, forget the grades. We're not going to do grades. He goes, That's not important. Like, like, I can see that you're really passionate about playing, and you've got a feel for the stuff. He goes, I was playing stuff here and you were, you were doing some like, 12 bar blues, like licks over the top and stuff like, that's, that's really great. Like, there's just, what we're going to do every week is you're going to come here and we're going to we're going to work on improvisation and blah, blah, blah improvisation. What's that? And he was like, well, like, you know, we're just literally, you're just going to feel the music, hear the music, and just do whatever you think. And it doesn't matter if you hit a bum note or you go wrong. You said that just, we'll just go with it, like that's all part of like this. I feel like that's your guitar journey. So every week, for like 10 weeks, I would go around and he would tell me great stories about him playing in all these places in London and playing with Jimmy Page and all the other stuff. And then we would just jam, and he would play drawbar blues and jazz and all sorts of stuff, and I would just play along, and we just jammed, the two of us, and it was amazing. It was like, just, just like, made me realize why I wanted to play the guitar in the first place, you know. And it was just fun and great. And and I, I finished the lessons, and I actually did some. I ended up coughing up coughing up somebody to do some more with him, because I really wanted to do more, because he was just great to be around and, you know, and just doing this was really fun. And, and that, you know, obviously I had to keep going back going, Yeah, it's going really well with the grades. Yeah, I'm going to be like, great, hungry grade eight, and in like, yeah, I've learned so much stuff. Graham's amazing. We were, you know, obviously I was just like going and jamming with this old guy in his house. But, yeah, so, but so that it just taught me so much about, like playing guitar when I eventually joined a band and we, you know, knowing about improvisation and like being able to just like riff on something or. Like, you know, like, Come someone comes in with, like a bass line or a drum beat or whatever, and being able to just cultivate a song organically from that, and being able to just like, you know, mile band, we used to jam a lot like we, when we as, like, a kind of warm up, we would just like someone would throw in a riff or a bass line or a drum bit whatever, or the vocalist would sing something, a melody, and we would just, like, work on stuff, and that's how we would organically write stuff. It was like, I would never have got that if I'd learned, like, grades, I would just wouldn't have been able to have those, you know, wouldn't have had the the confidence to express myself musically like that. And that's what Graham gave me. And to be honest, it wasn't just music that that happening, like, just the idea in life of improvising. Sometimes we all need to improvise. And like, it doesn't matter. Sometimes, if you know, you hit a bum note, like, if something doesn't go quite to plan, like, that's fine. Just, you know, you know, the whole idea around, you know, failure and like, you know, failure is good because you learn to grow from it, like failing on a, on a on a 12 bar blues riff that you know, if you hit the bum now it doesn't matter. You can go back and you know that that's not the right note to hit. You can find another note that's better. You know, I feel like it's kind of stuck with me in in other aspects of my life, you know, I know it's probably trying to shoehorn it in a little bit there, but it does feel like those lessons that Graham gave me about expressing myself and just going with it, and doesn't matter if you hit bum No, is like, just something that I've stayed with me in all my creative life, for sure, but also in life in general, you know, like, you know, life is ups and downs and is a few bum notes sometimes, but you know, that doesn't matter, like, you know, go go on to the next thing. So it was a massively impactful thing. And I was really lucky because he lives around the corner for me when I moved in, when we moved into the house we're in now, I think I saw his wife, and they mentioned, you know me, and Graham had remembered me, and I had like, 20 lessons with him or something. And I they invited me around for a cup of tea, and I went and and you, obviously you were saying about my nan earlier, being able to sort of Thank that person. I we sat down across here, and I just said, Graham, I just want to say thank you so much for teaching me about improvisation, because I said it as actually was life changing for my music. But it was, like, this big thing. It was had this massive impact on me, and it was so nice. Like, I mean, he's very Holly now, but, you know, I could see him sort of smile and, like, think, oh, you know, I guess those moments when you're a teacher, you get that those like moments of joy that, you know, you've actually imparted some amazing thing. He probably didn't think it was going to be that impactful, but obviously it was.

Holly Newson  22:47

Yeah, I feel like again, in some way or another, he's kind of seen you. He's, he's, you know, you've come along, you've said grades. He's gone. This guy doesn't want to do grades. Yeah, and he's seen that. So what's great, describe what, what Graham like looked like at the time. I want to, I want to picture him,

Giles Paley-Phillips  23:04

Okay, so, balding, white beard, quite short, slightly, yeah, round, very jolly face, like, very smiley, always smiling. Just, yeah, just so much passion for music as well, like, but not just, I mean, he was really into kind of him, his wife, kind of did music. There was a guess, slightly Carol King esque carpenters, but he loved all kinds of music. And, like, I say, blues music and rock and jazz and, you know, super talented individual. Like, I mean, just amazing. And he could play the trumpet and the piano. And he did piano lessons. He trumpet lessons, guitar like, obviously, just music was his everything. So he was like, he was a, obviously, I felt like I could, you know, obviously super trust his judgment on stuff as well. So it felt like it was an endorsement, you know, him saying, let's not do that. Like, this isn't what you're meant to do. And I yeah, I think, like, you say again, it's being seen and heard, isn't it? It's like, actually, although I was saying probably the what the things that I was supposed to say, like, oh yeah, I do definitely want to do grades. He could tell I didn't.

Holly Newson  24:18

When did the couple who were paying for the lessons. When did they realize that you'd been jamming, not, not,

Giles Paley-Phillips  24:26

probably not for quite some time. I mean, by the time, I guess by the time. I mean, I was obviously getting to quite a higher standard of playing. Yeah. But you know, are you doing? Have you had just You got any dates for your grades? Yeah? Like, well, actually, no, no, no, we've decided not to do that. Now, you know, sort of fess up a little bit. But by that time we were, I was in a band, and we were gigging and touring the country by then, so I suppose it was, it was okay to, sort of, you know, it's fine. What I've done is I've. Learned is what he's paying off.

Holly Newson  25:01

Yeah, that stage, no one's gonna go. But where's your certificate?

Giles Paley-Phillips  25:08

Yeah, so I winged it for quite some time, and then it was fine. Yeah.

Holly Newson  25:13

So have you improvised with him? Since? Where have you put when you pop around for a tea? Have you have you decided to do a little jam sesh?

Giles Paley-Phillips  25:19

Nah, we haven't. I was hoping maybe like last time I went and saw him, but yeah, he's quite frail now. Bless him, he's getting he is quite old. I don't know if he still plays. I hope he does. I haven't seen him for quite a while. But yeah, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to have one more. One more. Excuse me, one more. One more jam with him would be great.

Holly Newson  25:39

Yeah, I feel like as well. I don't know this is probably a massive generalization, but a lot of musicians, or people who have loved music, who I've spoken to as I've got older, like it never goes away, something that you know, you always carry on in one way or another. You know, you might drop off a little bit here, but then you get back into it, I feel like that, that love of music that never, really, never really goes for people.

Giles Paley-Phillips  26:07

No, not at all. It's funny, because I still play in a cut of bands, and I still do music a lot, although not, obviously, not professionally. But my son's just, we've just bought him an electric guitar because he started learning, and I just keep going in and taking his guitar, and he's like, Oh, can I have a go now? No, no. You know, I've got my own guitar, but, like, I'm like, Oh, he's got a new guitar. And I've suddenly just rebooted me a little bit. And I've just been doing loads this last couple of weeks, actually, just letting loads of music so it doesn't ever go away and it and it rears its head. I mean, I listen to music every day. I can't, you know, can't go a day without listening to music and stuff. So it is quite an integral part of me as a human.

Speaker 2  27:05

Recent acts of kindness that I've received would definitely have to be we moved house a couple of weeks ago, and as part of that, my parents and my sister were an enormous help. Also, the community in Brighton were incredible. We connected with a few people on free cycle and Gumtree who very, very kindly gave us some furniture they didn't want anymore, completely free, and we were very just really lovely about it, and we're really happy that it was going to a new home, and it really did kind of, you know, instill the whole community feeling of the area, which is just amazing.

Holly Newson  28:06

And is there another story of kindness that you're happy to share with me?

Giles Paley-Phillips  28:11

Yes, absolutely, yeah. I, I mean, this is probably the first one that popped into my head, because this family were wonderful, and obviously I talked to them about you, about them earlier, and they did lots of kind things for me. But as I was saying, when I was about 17, I was living in this one bedroom flat. My dad, he had loads of debts, and like, we were, like, just on the bread line for sure. And we were living in my nan's, his mum's, like, it was, I didn't even know we were supposed to live there, really. I think it was one of these residential flats. So I do remember when, like, there used to be, like a person would come around and get the rent, like a rent collector. This sounds like we're from, like the dickens. Time wasn't that, like, long ago, but it was like, I mean, I guess it was the 90s. But even then, anyway, they had this person that would come around. And we always used to have to, like, pretend we weren't visiting or we weren't there, kind of thing. So we, I don't think we were supposed to be living there. But anyway, it was, it wasn't an ideal situation, particularly as a tick for a teenage boy, and my brother managed to move out. So it was just it was just me, my dad and my Nan. Anyway, I used to go to this youth club. I used to help. I used to do like me and my friend Damien. We used to do like DJing, like at the Youth Club. So we had like these decks, and like, this massive speaker. Every week, we used to get these huge speakers out, some nuts, really thinking about it, and for like, an hour, and then we would, like, play music. And like, everyone would be playing, I know there'd be people playing badminton, like, with the background of like these, like, like the, I mean, these, these speakers are huge. We do. Killers, 100, what, like, 200 watt speakers, like blasting out whatever 90s music was at the time, and people playing badminton in the background, table tennis.

Holly Newson  30:12

I want to play badminton to a heavy bass now.

Giles Paley-Phillips  30:15

Yeah, it was like, you know, I don't know. You can imagine, like, Groovers in the heart. I'm dating myself here, banging out goofers In the heart while someone's like playing babbling. It's weird anyway. So we used to do that every week, and we loved it, and we funny enough. Damien, I always said, off in 30 years time, if we're still, if we're both unemployed, let's start a DJing company and we'll go and do weddings and like bar mitzvahs and stuff. That never happened, but there's anyway, the people that ran it with this lovely couple called Dave and Trish Robertson, and they were, like, quite intrinsically involved knowing what was going on in various different people's lives. And they were just really, really lovely people that I'd known actually from quite a young age. They used to go to there was a local church that I used to attend, and they they were there as well, and their kids were like, their daughter was assimilated to me, and that had an extension done on our house. And they knew my situation, and they said, Well, look, you can come. You can, like, if it's going to make life easy for you, you can come and, you know, come and live with us and and you went up to penguin and, you know, blah blah. And I was at college at the time, and I'm like, you know, we, we can just, you know, we'll, you know, we can feed you. And blah blah blah. And it was just this, like, unbelievable act of kindness, like to just take in this waif, this stray that they knew, you know. And I say I knew them really well, and then for many years, and I knew that, you know, I knew, like, say it was friends with their daughter, and their son was a bit younger, but, you know, and, yeah, they just let me move in to their to their house, and I had this little room in the front of the house. And I remember the first night I was there, they, they were saying good night to each other. Like, you know, like, night Gemma, night James, night, you know, that night I remember thinking, it's like the Waltons I like, and I was sitting in the room. I was like, Nat John, boy. It just felt like I was in the I was like, I don't, I don't recognize this. This isn't like normal, like, I don't recognize this dynamic. Like people saying good night to one another, and like it being a, like a being in a proper family, like a 2.4 family, like I'd never had, you know, for many, many years, had not had that situation, like, say, my mum died when I was six, like my dad was, like, just never, kind of around, really, very much. So, you know, I spent time with my grandparents, but, yeah, it just wasn't used to that dynamic at all. And it was quite strange for a while, like getting used to that, but then kind of understanding what our family works and how, you know, like, no family's perfect, but like, just knowing how that support network of, you know, of two parents, two children, and like, learning how that is, and actually having experiencing it and and actually feeling, I don't know about bit better about the future, like I just imagined like my life was going to be out of control and and, you know, difficult and challenging, but just being able to be in that environment of a normal family and learning what that was like was, you know, was so impactful again. And yeah, I'm internally internally, grateful. And we see them, you know, regularly. When my, when I got married, they were a big part of the, you know, our lives then, and they still, and they know my wife as well, because she used to go to the same youth club. And we, you know, we've stayed, you know, we, they live, still live locally so, and they still live in the same house that I lived in, actually. And we, you know, we see them quite regularly, and they've been a big part of, like, our family, growing and seeing how, how that's turned out. And, yeah, I mean, I can't ever sort of thank them enough for what they did for me. Because, you know, they actually, again, they saw me. They saw like, this lost person who was in, you know, in a difficult situation, and they, they, they helped, they helped me, and gave me stability, essentially, which is what I was craving at the time. And I learned what stability looked like, which was amazing.

Holly Newson  34:37

Yeah, what did you first think when they offered you to join their family or come and live in their home,

Giles Paley-Phillips  34:47

I was a bit, obviously, it was like, kind of, you know, I was thinking, Oh, God, can I like, first, it's that kind of, I'm terrible people, but it's like, kind of like, oh, I don't want to like that imposition. Like, I'm going to impose, like, is that? Going to be, you know, that kind of like, I don't, that's it. That sounds too generous, like, that's too much like to, I could never repay you kind of thing. It's all those kind of thoughts, I suppose, like, that's, I'm not worthy of that level of kindness. I suppose was the first initial thoughts, like, a bit of in denial, like, Oh no, they can't. They must be just saying that, you know, it was kind of a week, so they kind of weirded out in a way, because of, because of those, those kind of thoughts. But when I kind of came to, well, you know, obviously they were very good about it. And, like, didn't, you know, there was no pressure, obviously. But just sort of like, this could be a, you know, this could help you and help, you know, also help the situation in general, like, you know, with your with your dad and your nan. So, yeah, so it just meant I could sort of see it as, like, a way of, like, actually, this would be best for everybody,

Holly Newson  36:01

yeah, if I did this, yeah, and you said that, it kind of showed you what family really means. What did you come out of that, feeling like, well, oh, this is what family means.

Giles Paley-Phillips  36:16

Well, I think just seeing, like a regular family unit work at work, you know, how plays out. And obviously, like, say it's not perfect, that you have to, you know, you have your disagreements. And, you know, like, the they had teenage kids. So I was, I was a teenager as well. And, you know, teenagers are inherently difficult to deal with at times. And, yeah, so it was not like it was, I'm saying it's like, totally, like, a rosy, like, everything was blissful, and it was most the time, but like just seeing a normal family, like pro like but also seeing how, how, you know, a good unit works together and supports one another and communicates properly and deals With those difficult situations in the right way, and similar to, like, my nan putting her arm around me, like, those kinds of situations where, you know, if something's bad to happen, let's, let's find out why, and have, let's discuss it and communicate with one another. And I think that was essentially what I kind of got out of it, and how, like, how, you know, how it is to parent and how it is to be in that kind of I'd never had that. So it was really, really eye opening.

Holly Newson  37:33

Yeah, a massive change in your life. And I've always when, when people do something that you know they don't have to do, you know you might see someone struggling, you're not obliged to step in and offer them anything, but to offer you something on that level is just like, I mean, for them, I'm sure it means a lot to them as well. That like that you said yes, that you were willing to take a chance on them and come in them, with them, so, like, they're both ways. I think that's, it's just such an incredible thing to do.

Giles Paley-Phillips  38:09

Oh, it is. And, you know, and like you say, kindness kind of works both ways, doesn't it in a way? But yeah, and I hopefully it was, it was good. And I know they've only subsequently, they've done that that they had so my wife's little sister live with them for a bit, and they did that for her. And they regularly have, like, foreign students come over and stay with them. And they still, even now, they like, even this summer, they've had French students come and stay with them, and they take them out on day trips and stuff. It's just something they love doing, you know. They love like, supporting and helping and giving back to young people, and it's an amazing thing. So they're even still kind of doing it, you know. And maybe it gave them that opportunity to, like, you know, extend what they used to do with youth work and that have that impact on young people in a really positive way. Maybe I was the trial run in some ways, in and that's, that's great if that meant that they've that, you know, they've, they've, you know, I was like, Yeah, litmus test for how that might look, you know, going on, yeah? Because, you know, they're just really good people that want to do nice things with people,

Holly Newson  39:23

and that youth club that's got a lot to answer for. You found family and you found your wife, that seems pretty incredible.

Giles Paley-Phillips  39:32

Yeah, yeah. I know it was, yeah. I know it's funny, isn't it? The local youth club, yeah, but yeah, it's funny because my eyes quite a lot younger than me. So when we were there, I was obviously, like older now and then we found, we kind of found each other later in life again, but obviously we we knew all the same people, and we were in the same environment for week, like every Monday, it was so. She was playing badminton while I was banging out tunes on the the wheels of steel.

Holly Newson  40:06

So she was the one who got to benefit from the from the from the beats while she played.

Giles Paley-Phillips  40:11

She did. She did she Yeah, I don't know if it improved her game at all, but she got to enjoy some, like, some all sorts of funny things, and fair enough, yeah, I hadn't realized at the time, but she'd come to some of my early gigs as well. When I was like, playing the bands, I had no idea. So a lot of those people from there's very, like, amazing little community of people went to that youth club. Yeah, they're very supportive of one another. So, and again, the Robertsons, who took me in that was all down to them, really, that they cultivated a really lovely, lovely thing that people really took, benefited a lot from.

Holly Newson  40:50

Yeah, it's incredible. On a slightly different note, I wondered what the kindest thing you've ever done for yourself is,

Giles Paley-Phillips  41:00

I have to admit, I'm not always very good at being kind to myself. I'm quite, yeah, I'm quite self critical, I'm an over thinker, I'm a people pleaser, I'm all like, kind of the worst character traits. I'm a ruminator. So I I'm very sensitive to many like situations like I'll probably, after this, go away and think terrible on that podcast, and I've said all the wrong things, and I didn't say them in the right way, and Holly probably thinks I'm a complete idiot. And I said, I said, Oh God, you know, so I'm terrible for that kind of stuff. So I guess, on a low level, is stopping myself from doing those things. I've recently got more into doing, like meditating and stuff. And I think the kind of thing I can do for myself, sometimes, because of all those things, is giving myself a few minutes each day just to either ground myself or give myself a little just a second, maybe, or a few minutes, or 10 minutes or 15 minutes of time just to reflect and know where I've come from, where I am right now, what I'm grateful for, and I've started keeping a little journal as well, like just with a few it's got a few manifestations in it, and a few things I'm grateful for, and those kind of, I think those just those little habits forming, which I've done more recently, has kind of been one of the kindest things I've done for myself, like because I feel like it's now part of my routine to do those things, and it's just giving me a better perspective on everything in my life and who I am as a person, to hopefully going forward prevent me from finishing this podcast and thinking it was terrible and that you're probably going to have to edit everything out.

Holly Newson  43:07

Well, on this juncture, let me reassure you that in no way was it terrible, and in case it's useful to you, feel free to bin it if it's not. But one of the things that's helped me with a similar kind of rumination is someone telling me that you can thoughts like that. You can never you know. There's no value judgment to say if it's if it's the you know the truth or not the truth. So where your brain will allow you to replace it with a thought that would be more useful, because you also won't know that's the truth. So you might as well go away and think I was absolutely fantastic on that podcast. I told those stories really brilliantly, because you don't have proof either way, and you'll never have proof either way, like really legitimately. So you might as well give yourself a thought that feels helpful, that feels useful, and that makes you feel good, so feel free to use that, or been that, depending on if it's useful. But it has been massively useful to me to just remember that. Like, I'm not going to be able to prove most of these thoughts right and wrong, so I might as well choose a useful one.

Giles Paley-Phillips  44:13

Yeah, it's great advice. It really is. And for sure, like, I would definitely, I will definitely consider saying that to myself.

Holly Newson  44:23

Well, Giles, it has been such a pleasure to chat to you. Thank you so much for sharing your stories. I think they're incredible, and I think you put a lot of kindness out in the world on social media, and it was part of the reason I wanted to talk to you, because I just felt like someone who puts so much kindness out into the world, like you know, hopefully has some stories of people who have also been kind to them. So yeah, I just massively appreciate you sharing.

Giles Paley-Phillips  44:51

Oh, no, Thanks, Holly. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. And yeah, thank you for letting me tell my my little stories of kindness. And yeah, I really. Appreciate you asking me on.

Music  45:01

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here till it goes.

Holly Newson  45:08

Thank you so much for listening. You being here and your support means so much to me. If you also happen to have not the most complimentary in a monolog, I prescribe at least one. I love you in the mirror to yourself a day. I don't care if you feel silly. You deserve that love. So say it with feeling. This episode is dedicated to anyone who's taken us in when we needed it. Maybe share the episode with one of those people in your life or someone else who might enjoy it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you, so send that in at kind podcast.com or email me Holly at kind podcast.com and I will feature some of the stories on the show. If you like the show. Hit, subscribe, hit, follow, give us a rating. It helps me a lot. It was great to spend time with you. Speak soon.

Music  46:10

Dream on and let your heart unfold.