I was stranded in feather pyjamas | Sophie Williams

Sophie Williams  00:00

A single woman on my own in in feathers.

Holly Newson  00:07

Oh, hey, welcome to kind. I'm so glad you're here. I'm Holly, and I'll be chatting to guests about the times before kind to them and how that changed things. In this episode, you'll hear what it can mean when someone you don't even know goes out of their way to help, by the way, take your time. That's no rush, right? Let's drop you straight in. You're about to hear from an author, TED speaker, podcast host and curator of some of the best things on the internet. It's Sophie Williams.

Sophie Williams  00:43

I like that intro.

Holly Newson  00:45

You're, you're my weekly internet curation, without a doubt, my Saturday stories. Yeah, thank you. I'm here for them. Thank you. Yeah, I think and anyone who was in my vicinity when I happen to watch them, is also part of that. So what do you think being kind means? What does that mean to you?

Sophie Williams  01:05

So I've been thinking about this. I think I have two answers. So let's do both, and let's see how we're allowed. Yeah, so my first answer is, I think kindness is noticing and caring. So I think kindness is noticing when someone needs something, noticing what someone needs, noticing that somebody could be helped. And I think even that is quite a tricky thing to do. Sometimes, sometimes it's really obvious when people need our help, and sometimes it's not so obvious. I think noticing when someone has that need and then taking it one step further to care about it, and we can take that one step further to act on it, but we don't always have that resource. And I don't think that not having that resource makes us unkind. I think it means we are just people with limited resources. But I think yeah, noticing and caring maybe are the basis of kindness, yeah, what do you think?

Holly Newson  02:07

Yeah, I like that. I really like the idea that a lot of it is noticing, because, I mean, I can even relate in that, like my husband will say things to me. He's like, Oh, you, you stepped in and did that thing, but I didn't even noticed that person needed that thing. And so it's not really even that I stepped in and did the thing is sometimes just is the noticing a lot of the time,

Sophie Williams  02:28

because I think it's so easy and so normal and so natural to be someone who's on a little mission. Just out and about, you've got your bags. I bought a coat today. I shouldn't have, like, you know, you're burdened, and you're living your life and you're doing your own stuff, and it's really easy to forget that everyone else is living their own life. And there were times in my day when I could use some help, whether that is just, you know, sometimes if I'm at a bus stop or, like, passing the bus stop and I see someone running and they're not going to get there in time, I will stop that bus and I'll pretend I'm going to get on until that person gets there, then they can get on like it costs me nothing, yeah, but I just noticed that someone needed something. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect at this, and I'm not saying that that should necessarily be applauded, but I think it's kind I think it's nice to notice when people might need something.

Holly Newson  03:23

Yeah, and what's an everyday act of kindness that that means a lot to you? I mean, obviously you've, you've said one there, like, you know, stopping a bus is pretty nice. What sort of things when someone does it for you, do you feel like, Oh, thank you.

Sophie Williams  03:37

I don't know. I when I was going through, thinking about our conversation today, and thinking about what it was going to be like. I'm an autistic person, and so I do, sort of do that sort of planning in my head and like, what will this be like, and how will it go, and what will I do, and will I be okay? And will people understand that I'm not a naturally sociable person. Can I do that for an hour? So I find it really much easier to think about things that I can do rather than things that I receive. And maybe that's just really egotistical as well. Maybe it's just being like, I'm very kind. No one else is, but I am, and I don't think I feel that, but I mean, I guess my second potential definition of kindness maybe answers that question. Okay, go for it. So the second thing that I thought was maybe kindness was, as I've mentioned, as a neurodiverse person, someone telling me what they want, telling me what they need, being clear, being consistent, and following through on what they've said they're going to do that to me, is really kind, because it takes away that need for me to worry or to over plan or to panic or to get anxious about things because you said that you were going to email me on Thursday, and you did, and that's fine, because I then, because you said that, like the hypothetical you I've. Then held time on Thursday to be able to do my side of things. But if you don't, then actually send me that email until Wednesday, or, you know, some other time. If it's really delayed, then I'm going to be really anxious about why is it delayed? Did I do something wrong? Am I in trouble? When am I going to carve out a different space in my time to respond to this and to do that. And I think if you're not someone who feels like that, then it's really easy to overlook how what can feel like a slight change of plan can feel for someone else. And so yeah, I think when people do that for me, when they manage my expectations, when they're consistent in what they in how they interact with me, and when they do the things that they said they would, when they said they will, that's really kind to me, because that that really saves me a lot of really uncomfortable feeling.

Holly Newson  05:56

Yeah, definitely, I think that you've said, obviously, as an autistic person that is really important to you, and I think it's something that would apply to so many other people as well, and and I think maybe we sort of we underestimate how much anxiety can come from not setting expectations and then not following through,

Sophie Williams  06:19

yeah, or just the unknown. Yeah, like, I don't think there are many people who were like, I love having no idea what's happening.

Holly Newson  06:26

I've actually met a couple and been like, I don't understand you.

Sophie Williams  06:29

I just don't think I'd get on with them. I'd find it too stressful.

Holly Newson  06:34

So when people come on the show, I ask them to think of three times that people have done something kind for them. So I wondered, for this first story of kindness, if you would share what a bad book cover can look like, maybe in particular, what your book cover was looking like at this point in time,

Sophie Williams  06:54

it looks like a train toilet door. So what we're talking about is my third book. So I had already had two books that came out with one of the big five publishers in the UK, and then I didn't really enjoy that experience, because publishing actually, really doesn't sit well with that expectation management piece that we've just been speaking about. Like for them, it's fine if they don't reply to an email for two weeks, whereas I just think, you hate me, and I've done something wrong, and I can't understand why this is happening. And so for this third book, I went to a different publisher, another big five, and I wanted to have a different experience. I really wanted to enjoy this thing. Whenever I've heard authors talk about books, they talk about how much they love them. I think maybe you do get it slightly more now, but there was no narrative about being an author is really shit. It's really hard, it's really difficult to have to rely on this group of people, and especially if you are from a marginalized background, that same sort of attention and investment in your books is not always apparent, and that was definitely my case. So I went to this new publisher, and we'd had our various difficulties, but things were, I think, in a reasonably okay place when I got my book cover first versions. And so the way that author contracts work is, you don't have, like, full approval of your covers. Okay, you have what's called meaningful consideration, but there's no real alignment on what is meaningful consideration. And as we've spoken about, as I'm sure your listeners have, sort of began to get to know what sort of person I might be. Meaningful means meaningful to me? Yeah, yeah. And so I got these fast options back, and really you're not meant to do anything other than pick one of them and say, Actually, maybe we could change this color, or you could have my name at the top instead of at the bottom. But that's sort of the level of feedback that you're meant to give, expected to give. But my entire career has been in the creative industries. I've worked in advertising for a long time. I worked at a streamer for a long time, so I'm used to being in the room where we not only make the thing, but we make the packaging for the thing, and we decide how we're going to get it out and where that's going to sit. And every book needs to look unique and it needs to look interesting, but it also needs to sit in some kind of dialog with other books of that genre, of that type of that time, just because people in bookshops need to know what to pick up. The idea that you can't judge a book by its cover is not a good idea, like a lot of work goes into them. The versions that I got back initially were just stick figures on like various colored backgrounds. And I asked, like, why have you said this to me? And there were a couple of really popular books that were sort of in a similar category to mine ahead of mine, and those are invisible women and the authority gap. Yeah. And they both use those figures, yes, but in those figures, for the authority gap, for example, you have a male coded figure quite high, a female figure quite low, and a gap in between them. But we're doing something with that metaphor, visually representing what that it's about, yeah, but these were just like, I don't know, like 15 to 20 just cut outs that you'd see on a toilet door. And I was just like, why? Yeah, I knew that I hadn't worked this hard on this thing that I thought was good and important and that mattered to me for it to go out, one looking bad, and two looking like a dupe of something else. And so that began like a yeah, that began a process of, what does meaningful consideration mean with my publisher?

Holly Newson  10:57

So then, who did you turn to? You're having this debate with your publisher, and you're, you know, you're like, oh, this, this isn't right. Where do you go?

Sophie Williams  11:11

So I have a group of people who I call my style Council, and they are the first group who are very kind to me, who I'd like to talk to you about today. So my style Council are friends. Well, essentially, my style Council are colleagues who have become friends, mostly, and that is people who I've worked with in various advertising agencies, people I've worked with in streaming, people I've worked with an independent creative project. So they are designers, they are copywriters, they are art directors, they are producers. They are, you know, people who know how to get things done. Essentially, that's a really important thing. If we were just left in the room together, we could make something, we could get it out into the world. And that's a skill set that I really love, and I love to be around. And so I just got all of them. And it's not the first time I've assembled them, but I just got all of them in a Instagram chat, and I was like, This is what they want me to go with. I need feedback.

Holly Newson  12:16

I've just had to revise my image of you all sitting around Lord of the Rings style to Instagram chat. But I'm with you!

Sophie Williams  12:21

because these people are around the world as well, as well as like the people who are the industry creative professionals. I also just have people who I think I would like to buy my book. I would like people like you to buy my book, because I think it would be helpful to them. Does this appeal to you? And the answer was a resounding NO, but because these people have these professional backgrounds and because they love me, they're able to give me more than a no. They're able to give me no because it looks like this, and train toilet door was the thing that came out most of all. And they were also able to say like, these are other books or titles or, you know, ad campaigns or billboards or whatever that I've seen that I think actually really fit in this category that would be better for you. And so I did most of the work of finding and making new mood boards and sending those over to the publisher, but I was able to say one thing that publishing loves to do, if you're me, and hopefully not if you're anyone else, but my experience of publishing, I think, is a more normal way to say that, is just really gaslighting, really just like everyone else thinks this is great and you're the problem. So I was able to really feel assured, because I knew that I had people who were who were making things that people see every day, things that have become part of our culture. I was able to say, I'm not wrong. Here are some other options, and here are some opinions from the people who've had the first few so knowing that they're there, knowing that they care for me, knowing that they are going to give me just their time in an Instagram chat is really helpful, and it's really it really allows me to stand up for myself. And standing up for myself is something that I end up having to do quite a lot, and it's can be really scary, and it can be really intimidating, and it can be really lonely, but having people who you know will tell you the truth and will back you up is really helpful. So my style counsel,

Holly Newson  14:30

and you said that to me when you sent this over, that it didn't stop there. They also, they being your style council, stepped in for the launch party as well. So what did they do for that?

Sophie Williams  14:44

So for the launch party? And again, I think maybe if you haven't had a book out, launch parties sound like a really glamorous thing, in reality, you have to really fight to be allowed one. And so I was allowed one, but I had, I think, a 200 pound budget. And I was able to do it upstairs in my publisher's office, so I wanted to make it look as good as I could. Within those constraints, I got one of the people, Jamie, from my Style Council. He and his partner had just started a catering business, so I was able to get them to come and do the catering, and I knew that I was in really good hands, and that was really safe. I was able to get my friend Ben peachy, who was also an author and a trans and non binary activist. I was able to get them to come, and they did a little introduction with me, and a little Q and A for me, my friend Lisette, who I helped her by doing. She went on like a little floristry. Course, that sounds diminishing. She went on a floristry course before her wedding, and learned some really beautiful skills, and then taught me to do some for her wedding. So I got to her wedding a day early, and we were just in this little shed, and we were like, putting all these pieces together, and then she got to my book launch, like, a couple of hours early, and I just gave her, like, these boxes of flowers. And I was like, can you make these look nice? And she did. She made them look amazing. Some of the first people who arrived were people who I knew well enough to invite, but I wasn't like, I've got lots of internet friends rather than, like, IRL friends. And so these people came, and they were like, I know that guests don't really do jobs, but do you need anything? So I pointed at some other people like they're guests. They're making party hats. For me, what I need from you please is, can you go and get the prosecco from the fridges downstairs? And what was really nice was having these people who have this eye and can make things beautiful and can set things out and make them lovely, and can use their talents in really, DIY, ad hoc, make it yourself ways, but also having people who aren't in my style Council, because I don't know them in that context, but who just happened to come early and were like, I know this isn't normal, but do you have a job for me, and feeling, you know, happy and comfortable to say, yeah, I really, actually would like this help. Yeah, that was really nice for me.

Holly Newson  17:07

Yeah, it's so joyous. And I saw, I remember seeing the pictures on Instagram, and I obviously, I didn't know this backstory, and I just thought that looks like one of the best launch parties I've ever seen. It looks incredible. So, yeah. I mean, I from, from my my limited viewing, they did a great job, yeah. And so, what is it about those acts that stand out as particularly kind to you,

Sophie Williams  17:34

That these are people using their skills, their professional skills and their passions, just to help, just to say, Oh, I know about this, so I can do this for you. I hadn't thought about it, but I think what I like is that I'm also able to to at least try to be that for them as well. So it feels like a really nice reciprocal relationship.

Holly Newson  18:07

Could you tell me a time that someone did something kind for you?

Speaker 2  18:11

Yes, so I moved here to London, like four months ago, maybe. And I think anyone who lives here would know that it's very stressful to find a place to live. So my friend who lived here, who lives here, let me, like, crash on in her tiny apartment, on her tiny couch while I looked for somewhere to live. And it was just a huge life saver, considering that it's like, not even a very big apartment or anything, and I don't know, they just took me in, and it was really, really lovely. And then eventually I did find somewhere else to live. But, yeah, I really appreciated that, and it was very kind thing.

Holly Newson  18:47

What did it feel like to be like, Oh, I've got space just for now to figure things out.

Speaker 2  18:52

It was so helpful because I came over here with nowhere to live and no job. Yeah, so smart, but it was like it made the landing pad so much softer.

Holly Newson  19:11

So we're gonna move on to your second story of kindness. I wondered if you would tell me where you were at this point in your life. How old were you and what what were you? What were you like at that age?

Sophie Williams  19:23

So the funny thing is, I'm not sure quite how old I was. It might have been just before I went to uni, so like 17, or it might have been like in a summer holiday from like, first year of uni, but like, late teens is where we'll put a pin in it. And I think if you speak to any black woman, and you know, I use those terms broadly, growing up in the UK, they have a story about their hair. They have a story about either being bullied for their hair or. Or, you know, being in a place where they don't know how to find or access products, or having to change it, or deciding to not change it, or whatever. Or people coming up during the street and touching it, or people shouting at you about it. Like when I was a child, people used to get in trouble at school for my hair being untidy, and I don't really have a way to tidy it in sort of the way that they would have imagined or wanted. So I am a very light skinned, mixed race woman with natural Afro texture hair that I wear quite long. Here's my little audio description of me for you, and it always been a real difficulty. So when I was younger, like primary school aged, I used to get bullied quite a lot for it, and people would make racist remarks to me about it. And so I was like, Okay, what I'm going to do here is I'm going to get this straightened. And I grew up in Birmingham in the 90s, and my mum is a dark skinned black woman, and she came from Jamaica when she was about eight. And I'm not really clear on the story, and we don't have a relationship, so I can't really clarify it, but she definitely grew up without her mum, and her dad died when she was really young. So for some reason, her mom had sent her to the UK, and I think that was just after the sort of Wind Rush period. And so she was staying with people who had come over in Wind Rush and so that I would have imagined as a real community of knowledge and care and like, here's how you look after this texture of hair and how you do this. And that, my mom doesn't know how to do anything with our hair, right? I don't know why that has all passed her by somehow. And so I grew up not really knowing what to do with it. And so we'd get a chemical relaxer, which would come in a box with a picture of like, a girl with a little flick on the side of her hair, and she looked so cool. Mine never came out like that. But a woman would come to my house, we'd get a box of relaxer, and it would take a day, and we would do it, and I really wanted it to be straight, so what you would do is you leave it in until it burns, then when it starts burning, you wash it out. But as I got a little bit older, I started to be like, I need to figure out what I can do with this, because when you have a relaxer, you can't really get your hair wet, so you can't swim, you can't, like, have a snowball fight. You can't get caught in the rain, like all of these and you can, if you know how to deal with it. But I didn't know, because no one had told me, and anytime I tried to go to a hairdresser. So when I was growing up, 90s, early, 2000s we would like, the High Street hairdresser. Was like, Tony and guy, yeah, yeah. So I'd try and go to Tony and guy, approximately twice a year, and approximately twice a year, they'd be like, no, because it's one of the very few industries where they could just legitimately be like, we don't serve black people. Essentially, we won't cut your hair, even though it was straightened. And so I had this real difficulty of wanting to learn how to do my hair, not having the sort of internet in the same way that we have now, not having the autonomy of being an adult and just being like, I don't know what to do, and so I don't know how, but my mum found a hairdresser, and instead of coming to me, I had to go to her. And I was like, this is weird. So went to this woman's house. I think again, the like details around it are a bit fuzzy, but I went to this woman's space, and she sat me down, washed my hair, and then started to blow dry it with, like, with a blow dryer, with, like, an attachment on the end that's like a comb. So blowing it so it's like, straight, straight, straight, and then we'd straighten it with tongs afterwards. And I had no idea that I could straighten my hair without a relaxer. So this was really interesting to me, that this woman was like, Yeah, you're gonna have straight hair at the end. And I was like,

Holly Newson  24:09

without the burning,

Sophie Williams  24:10

What do you mean? And the reason this is an act of kindness is she stopped partway through doing it and handed me the hair dryer with the attachment. And was like, Okay, now you go. And I was like, No, that's not how this works. But she was like, No, you're gonna do this. And like, I was a teenager, she was an adult. What am I gonna do? Like, I'll go home and tell my mum afterwards, but yeah, like, and she just, like, guided me through how to do it. And I was a teenager, I was very if I am not in a space, I feel comfortable within or with the person I feel comfortable with, quite prickly. I don't like being condescended to. I don't like being spoken down to. I find it really annoying. And so she was being like, I was doing the thing that she was telling me to do. And she said, like, good girl. Like, you're a good girl, you're doing this. And I thought in my head, my instinct was to be like, fuck off. But I still remember that that was the only time that someone like an adult who wasn't related to me and didn't have to be nice to me, was like, You're a good girl. Yeah, I was so used to just this thing being something I was getting in trouble for from adults, or thing something I was getting bullied for by other children. So to have someone reframe this as like this is good, you're doing good, and like that really helped me. And I don't wear my hair straight anymore. I haven't worn my hair straight for a long time for various reasons, but knowing I still have, like, a big blow dryer with that attachment, and if I want to, I can, and the only reason I can is because that woman who I paid to do a service for me, of doing my hair, did a different service of teaching me how to do my hair. And yeah, I don't know her name. I don't I couldn't tell you, like anything about her. I don't know how we found her. Yeah, I love her.

Holly Newson  26:22

Do you remember your first impression on on meeting her at all?

Sophie Williams  26:25

I remember, I thought she was, she was a very confident, older black woman, and I hadn't come across very many people who were taking up space at that point, like lots of the people I knew, were very vivacious and friendly and amazing behind closed doors, but it was like sort of respectability politics. When you go outside like you're you don't cause any trouble, you don't draw any attention to yourself, you don't do anything that could have a negative backlash on you. You just stay under the radar. You stay out of people's placement. She was just like a really vivacious, really lively, and I thought she was really weird in some ways.

Holly Newson  27:02

And so in that moment, how did you how did you feel, and how did you feel, leaving that experience

Sophie Williams  27:11

In terms of feelings, the feeling I remember most of all is her saying that I was doing something good, and me having the impulse to be sort of rude or snarky or just like, I'm not a child, but just deciding not to, and deciding that it was nicer like this with this woman who was taking care of me and showing me how to take care of myself. And I don't think I've really thought about her or that experience for I'm 38 now, so for like 20 years, but when you asked me to think about kind things people have done, that was immediately top of mind for me, and it's weird, yeah,

Holly Newson  27:58

Do you think It changed how you felt about your hair when those things happened to you in life, those bullying experiences or after that, you know, people say something about your hair. I want to touch your hair. Those things. Do you think it changed anything there?

Sophie Williams  28:15

I think it gave me agency. Up till then, I couldn't go swimming with my friends. I avoided doing exercise in case it made me sweat and that made my hair change. I couldn't, like, maybe I was at uni because I remember people having, like, water pistol fights and just been like, I can't. I just couldn't do loads of normal things, and I couldn't do them for a reason that I couldn't explain, because I was, if I was at uni, that was I was one of maybe two, three non white people in my entire year group, and we were on a really isolated campus, and so I didn't feel able to say, I can't do this. Because of that. I just wasn't able to have fun, I wasn't able to engage. I wasn't able to do the things that my peers were doing, and so having this knowledge allowed me to do the things I wanted to do, and it also allowed me it's not ideal that I felt as though it wasn't possible for me to wear my hair natural. I just wouldn't ever, ever leave the house unless I had my hair straightened and I wouldn't ever leave the house without a hat in case it rained and like all of these precautions, yeah, but so I'm glad that I don't need to use the skills that she taught me anymore. I'm glad that I feel comfortable just being me and being able to wear my hair in the texture that it grows out of my head. But I'm glad that when I wasn't that confident, when I wasn't in that space, when I wanted to or when I felt the need to change myself in order to protect myself, someone was able to give me the tools to do that safe. Flee without burning my scalp.

Holly Newson  30:03

I'm really glad that you've remembered that from like this, this podcast,

Fiona Dennison  30:16

We're staying in a hostel in a city near Chichen Itza, Mexico, and they included breakfast. And the daughter of the owner asked us the night before, what time we wanted to go down to the table for breakfast, but we said that we had to leave very early for the shin it's a bus, so we were going to miss breakfast, but that's okay. We would have it the day after, and we were leaving the hotel at 640 I think was 645 and we had amigos, amigos, and the guy who owned it was chasing us, and he'd made us, like, pack lunches with bottles of water, which was an absolute life saving saver, yeah, like, amazing egg and salad sandwiches with loads of avocado. It was just, like, so kind he had. He got up early to do that, and we, you know, really weren't expecting it. Yeah, really, really lovely.

Holly Newson  31:28

So tell me what had happened so far this day, up to when this kind thing happened,

Sophie Williams  31:38

I had, in some ways, been having a day that is quite successful. I had been booked to do some speaking work in Edinburgh, so I got the train up. And, you know the I was doing some speaking for a bank. So they got me first class train tickets, and they give you a sandwich in first class. Oh, hello. I was living so I'd been booked to do this work, and I had put that through the agents that I had at that time. So the way agents normally work is that they will find pieces of work for you, and they will sort of do the contracting and the work around that to make it possible, and they will take somewhere around 20% of of the fee for that service. The way that it was working for me was I would be the person who would say, I've got this piece of work. Can you just get it confirmed for me, and then can you do the logistics around it? So got to Scotland, I then need to get to the hotel that I'm going to be using as a base for that day, and so I get in a car that might this isn't an abduction story. We're going to be okay. Oh, this could be really bad. But my agency, instead of putting in the hotel I was going to they just put in Premiere in Scotland, so I just got driven for a long time, and I was just saying to the driver, are you sure this is the address that I'm meant to be going to? And when you do work like that, you get in a lot of taxis where you don't really know where you're going, like the person booking you as ordered travel. So you just get in the car and you just get in the car, when you just sit there on your phone, and then you get somewhere, and you're like, I'm here, wherever that is. And so it became clear that we were leaving Edinburgh. And I was like, there is a problem here. So I had to phone my agents. And they were like, Oh yeah, sorry. We just put in, like, premiere in Scotland. I was like, not good. So then I was I ended up getting to the right place eventually, but I was really stressed, and I was not in the position that you want to be in going to do a speaking event. But I went to the speaking event, it was fine, and it's actually quite nice, because I think my second book had just come out, and so people as well as the talk, wanted me to do, like signing of their books, or like record messages for their sister or whatever, like it was cute, so I was feeling quite good. I get my own taxi back to the hotel, and then the agents have organized a taxi to get back from the hotel to the train station, because I need to be back first thing in the morning to do a speaking event for NHS leadership, and this is just after covid. So like, just like a group of people who you really want to, you know, you want to give a good experience to, yeah, so what it's going to happen is I'm going to get a car to the station, and then I'm going to get the sleeper train back to London. So I'm ready for the morning, and I wait and I wait, and it becomes clear that no car is coming, so I go downstairs to try and get reception to like, what's the best taxi business here? Like, whatever. I try not to use Uber. I don't think they have very good ethics. There's no one on reception, so I wait. For 10 minutes, there's still no one on reception. And because I've got really big ideas about how the Caledonian sleeper train will be, I'm wearing feathery pajamas, gorgeous, because I'm just like, this is a content opportunity. And so it becomes clear it's not coming. Becomes clear there's no one to either check me out or to help me get a car so I just get anywhere. Sometimes you just got to do things. It becomes all fine. I get to the station, and I get to my platform just as two people in high vis jumpsuits are pressing the door close button and the train is pulling out, and I'm just like, No,

Holly Newson  35:44

oh, it's the worst feeling. It's the worst feeling any time. But like, a sleeper train,

Sophie Williams  35:48

yeah, and I'm there, just like, so I'm in the middle of Edinburgh in in feathery pajamas, saying to these men, like, oh no. Like, what? And like, I think they expect me to be rude to them or angry with them or whatever, and I'm not, but I am upset not with them, but they can see that I'm just like, Okay, it's midnight and I'm in a city I don't know, and I need to be in London in the morning. What am I going to do? And both of them walk away. But then someone else comes up, also in the fetching jumpsuit, and he's so kind to me. He's so kind. So I'm talking to him, I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna have to try and book a different I'm gonna have to try and do something. So I go for my phone, and my phone isn't there because I've left it in the taxi because I'm stressed about being late, and it's just all, you know, just when you just have a day where you're just like, I'm not thriving, I'm not thriving in this situation. Yeah. So he takes me to like, a seating section, and he helps me to contact Uber to try and get my phone back. He just speaks to his colleagues and gets me a room on the next sleeper train that's leaving, which is nicer than the room I was meant to. He talks to his colleagues. He lets me so he's just there for ages, like ages. He's with me. He phones my partner and tells him what's happened, and then between the three of us, we managed to get in touch with the Uber driver, and Uber driver's going to bring the phone to the station, but he's going to bring it two minutes before the train that I'm on now leaves. Okay, and so it just becomes apparent that it's not gonna happen. And I will say I'm aware that my phone is just a thing. What was worrying for me is my phone is also where my bank account is and where my savings account is, and how I pay my mortgage and like, all of these things that are just like the some of the people on the train were like, it's just a phone. And I was like, it absolutely is. And if the person who works for you, you know, your colleague gets it and then turns it off and puts it in the bin, that's fine, yeah, but I need to know where my bank account is, and, like, all of these things. So it wasn't sort of the physicality of my phone that was worrying. It was like, and my phone was going to be how I would get in touch with my agents, and that's how I'd get to the speaking event in the morning, and, like, all of this stuff,

Holly Newson  38:32

yeah, it's a way of, it's, it's like the utility in order to live your life. It's like your phone, like a

Sophie Williams  38:38

tethering, yeah, like, I need this thing. And he was just great. And he helped me, and he helped me figure out Uber he helped me freeze my bank cards, my business bank, my business banking, and, like all of the things that I was worried about, he just fixed for me, not necessarily by doing it, but just by sitting with me while I tried to do it, yeah? And because otherwise I would have just been a single woman on my own in in feathers like, you know, 12:31am on a train platform, yeah? So then the train that he'd kindly put me on left the Uber driver again. Kindly, we did give him some money to say thank you. He came to meet train guy at the station. Sam, I know your name is not train guy, but for the ease of telling this story, that's what we came to meet him at the station. Gave him my phone. And then a few days later, train guy was able to put my phone on a train to London, and I was able to go and collect it from a train driver,

Holly Newson  39:49

yeah, so you know Sam's name, so you still know Sam.

Sophie Williams  39:53

I don't. I wanted to know Sam, yeah, Sam maybe helps more people than I realized, because. He was really kind and really nice and really helpful and really available and really made me feel safe, but did not want to be my friend afterwards. And then, I don't think because I had done anything, no, just because he was at work, yeah, and I guess maybe his interpretation of what it means to be at work is different to some other people's because the first two people who saw me, you know, miss my train by a fraction, just didn't engage, and it's not their job to engage. But he decided it was his job, and there's nothing special about me, so maybe that's what he does, and maybe he just can't be friends with all of the people he helps, and that's why he doesn't answer my email.

Holly Newson  40:47

So I said to you, just before we started this, that when I read that story, when you sent it to me, that I cried it a bit. And the reason this gets me so much is because the kindness is just it's like one thing after another after another in the best way, like usually when you're saying that, it's like all the things that have gone wrong, one thing after another, after another. But no for this, it was like kindness after kindness, and to feel that supported and that taken care of. I don't have to figure this all out on my own. There is someone who is going to help me figure out every single bit of this. Yeah, they're not going to disappear halfway through. They're there for the whole thing. Is just like, it's just crazy to me, because I just feel like that's what I don't know. Maybe it's just personally what I crave. I don't know, but it just feels like such a such a full body embrace of being held, of being like, I'm gonna get you through all of this,

Sophie Williams  41:54

yeah, yeah, yeah, even for days later to be like, I've got your phone. I've kept it for you. I've given it to this other person or giving them instruction about what to do. Here's where you find them. Here's like you're logistic he didn't need to do that. He didn't need to wait outside the station for the Uber driver to come and give it like he didn't need to put me on another train. He didn't need to sit with me while I tried to figure out how you get in touch with an Uber driver if you don't have your phone, so you can't see who you're, like, he didn't need to be there for any of it, but he chose to be, yeah, and I guess, like he noticed and he cared, and he helped me. How do you get in touch with an EVA driver if you don't have your phone? Oh, my God, it's a hassle.

Holly Newson  42:34

But you need Sam. You need Sam. And you made it to the NHS speaking event. Good.

Sophie Williams  42:40

And it went fine, yeah, and then I fired my agents.

Holly Newson  42:46

I really like the idea that Sam is just helping people who come into Edinburgh station all the time.

Sophie Williams  42:53

Imagine that's his full time job. Imagine it's not but

Holly Newson  43:00

and so in all of this, these are beautiful stories of kindness. What are the kind things that you do for yourself?

Sophie Williams  43:06

I think every year the New Year's resolution I make for myself is like, soft fabrics, thick creams, scented oils, just like wrapping myself up in things that feel good to me. Yeah, and I think whether we've been talking about the hairdresser or the feeling of knowing that I can rely on my style cancel or Sam the nice train, man, I think we've spoken about that feeling of being wrapped up, of being surrounded, of being sort of in a space of safety. And I think those things just like I had some really nice candles that I had on my dining table that I just realized I think I put there in maybe 2021, I burned those last week because I just want to use the nice things that I have, yeah, and so I think one thing that I've started trying to do for myself as a kindness is just allowing myself to enjoy the things that I want and that I have access to without feeling guilty. And that doesn't mean I try not to do loads of unnecessary spending. I try to be quite ethical. I try to be quite mindful. But the things that I do have, I want to use them. I don't want to save them. There's a quote, there's like, right now is all we have. And I feel that, yeah, yeah. I just want, like, soft, nice, comfortable and good smelling things around me. Yeah.

Holly Newson  44:47

What's a piece of clothing that you'd sort of been saving that you're now wearing?

Sophie Williams  44:50

So I've never done it with clothing. I have always so when I worked in advertising, I used to work in the same building as ASOS, and they. To have one pound sample sales, but they would never tell you when it was it was like, it's now. So I used to keep two IKEA bags under my desk. And, you know, some people be like, oh, yeah, I was there. So I've always been big on the clothing. I always been big on, like, color and texture. But I've also, in the last few years put on a lot of weight, and I think I could have been upset about that just because of how society expects us to feel, and how it views fatness and all of these things, but instead, it's just like, now you just get to find out how to do things for a different body. And I think that's been, like, an exciting opportunity, but because I've never been good at saving things, and because my body is very different to how it was, there's nothing that I've really saved for a long time.

Holly Newson  45:50

Yeah, that's, that's really, I think, a lovely way to live like, you know, you don't want to save those things for best. What's best? No, exactly, not. Now when? Well, Sophie, it's been so good to chat to you. I so appreciate you coming and sharing your stories and well, they're just such beautiful stories, and it's just great to see you again as well. Thanks.

Sophie Williams  46:13

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Music  46:22

Hey, hold on. I'll stay here till it goes.

Holly Newson  46:29

Thank you so much for listening. You being here and your support means so much to me. I think we need more Sams in this world, or maybe we need to be those sounds. This episode is dedicated to anyone who helped sort things out when shit hit the fan. Maybe share this episode with one of those people in your life, or someone else who might enjoy it. I would also love to hear a story from you about a time someone was kind to you. So send that in@kindpodcast.com or email me, Holly at kind podcast, calm and I will feature some of the stories on the show. If you like the show, hit, subscribe, hit, follow, give a rating, a review, it helps me a lot. It was great to spend time with you. Speak soon. You

Music  47:29

Hey dream on and let your heart unfold.